Kadampa Tradition

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Kadampa Tradition

Postby BJR » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:35 pm

I am very new and just starting to investigate Buddhist thinking and philosophy. I have found out that there is a local meditation event described as being in the New Kadampa Tradition. What is the difference between this and Theravada? Is it something deep and different such as Church of England versus the Catholic church or just two sides of the same coin? Sorry upfront if this is a very ignorant or (hopefully not) offensive question.
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Akuma » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:58 pm

BJR wrote:I am very new and just starting to investigate Buddhist thinking and philosophy. I have found out that there is a local meditation event described as being in the New Kadampa Tradition. What is the difference between this and Theravada? Is it something deep and different such as Church of England versus the Catholic church or just two sides of the same coin? Sorry upfront if this is a very ignorant or (hopefully not) offensive question.


I think its deeper than the Church Of England vs Catholic Church as not even the "bibles" are the same - if I'd have to compare that I'd rather compare it like Judaism vs Christianity.
Theravada bases their teachings on the Pali Canon + Pali Commentaries and is using older scriptures while Vajrayana aka Tibetan Buddhism of which New Kadampa is a subschool uses newer scriptures which are also not written in Pali but mostly in Tibetan. Additionally I remember that in Tibetan Buddhism New Kadampa was or is controversial altho I dont remember why.
I'd recommend getting a book about how Buddhism began, divided into different schools and how it spread over different countries. Maybe "Buddhist Thought" by Williams is a good choice.
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Marmalade » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:59 pm

Wikipedia says it's considered controversial.

Qutoe from Wikipedia:

"David V. Barrett has characterized the NKT-IKBU as "one of the newest and most controversial Buddhist movements", mainly due to the Dorje Shugden controversy in the Tibetan community"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Kadampa_Tradition

It's supposed to be Mahayana, rather than Theravada.
Hello, I am not actually a Buddhist, and I know only some very limited basics about Buddhism. I'd like to know a bit more and to ask a few questions, if that's OK. :)
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Marmalade » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:03 pm

And by the way, I think discussion of this Dorje Shugden thing is probably best avoided.
Hello, I am not actually a Buddhist, and I know only some very limited basics about Buddhism. I'd like to know a bit more and to ask a few questions, if that's OK. :)
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby BJR » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Thank you both - guess I need to do some research before I upset people by asking any stupid questions :embarassed:
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:16 pm

Marmalade wrote:And by the way, I think discussion of this Dorje Shugden thing is probably best avoided.

Why?
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby tamdrin » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:17 pm

Don't go anywhere near the New Kadampa, they are a dangerous cult.

P.S. This question is best asked over at dharmawheel.net
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby BJR » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:21 pm

Really? They are running meditation sessions in my local area in council run premises ( Town Halls/ Libraries etc )
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby cooran » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:26 pm

Ben wrote:
Marmalade wrote:And by the way, I think discussion of this Dorje Shugden thing is probably best avoided.

Why?


His Holiness the Dalai Lama's Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)
http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgy ... ess-advice

with metta
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Mr. G » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:29 pm

tamdrin wrote:Don't go anywhere near the New Kadampa, they are a dangerous cult.


^ This
Even if my body should be burnt to death
In the fires of hell,
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice
- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby tamdrin » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:30 pm

yeah man they are bad news in general.. Especially if they try and get you to do the practice of dorje shugden which is in fact a lama who reincarnated in the hungry ghost realm who is a demon, who they practice against the strict advice of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and cause all sorts of problems in general.. I have heard many many stories about people who got involved with that group and found out it was a BIG mistake. Especially don't take empowerments or vows with them as this will be forming an irreveresible commitment to them with no chance of turning back.

http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgy ... ess-advice

http://www.antishugden.com/
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:30 pm

Greetings BJR

From a Theravadin's point of view:
The Vajra community are split into those who support the Kadampa and those who do not. Its true that there is some controversy surrounding the sub-tradition in regards to the propitiation of the spirit 'Shugden'. And seen from afar, it would appear that two camps (Dalai Lama and supporters) and Kadampas are both calling each other 'evil' for arcane historical and political reasons that mean virtually nothing to me except as a curiosity.
As a Theravadin I'm not inclined to take any instruction from the Mahayana or Vajrayana. That is the result of the confidence I have in the tradition (and sub-tradition) in which I practice.
kind regards

Ben
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Akuma » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:31 pm

Ah the demon-worshippers - I knew there was something about them that I forgot :lol:
And I dont think anyones upset BJR everyone's a newbie at some point. Just stay calm, grab soem good books and take your time :smile: :reading:
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby BJR » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:34 pm

Good advice I have to say it makes me nervous as it seems like an innocent meditation session in a local council run environment and I find out there is all sorts of undercurrents attached to the discussion topic. I need to learn more from books and the written word (and forums like this) before I expose myself in person to any third parties I don't know.
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby tamdrin » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:37 pm

on the otherhand there is nothing with the Kadampa tradition of old, just not the "new" kadampa...
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby BJR » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:38 pm

tamdrin wrote:Don't go anywhere near the New Kadampa, they are a dangerous cult.

P.S. This question is best asked over at dharmawheel.net


I posted the question on dharmawheel.net and it has been removed and I get a message that I am not authorized to read the postings. Is someone playing me for a fool?
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Justsit » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:44 pm

A small point of clarification for anyone who might be interested: the organization which propitiates the demon is called "New Kadampa" tradition under the direction of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. It is the only one censured by HH the Dalai Lama. There exists a much earlier body of teaching called "Kadampa" which is not censured, and is, indeed, highly encouraged. Apparently there are some "New Kadampa" centers which fail to make the distinction clear.

*Sorry, Tamdrin, didn't see your post before I submitted this one.
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:56 pm

BJR wrote:
tamdrin wrote:Don't go anywhere near the New Kadampa, they are a dangerous cult.

P.S. This question is best asked over at dharmawheel.net


I posted the question on dharmawheel.net and it has been removed and I get a message that I am not authorized to read the postings. Is someone playing me for a fool?

I don't think so. There may be a clause in their TOS with regards to discussion on new kadampa and shugden. If you have any queries with regards to the removal of your post, it is best to contact one of the admins there and ask them directly.
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Marmalade » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:05 pm

Ben wrote:
Marmalade wrote:And by the way, I think discussion of this Dorje Shugden thing is probably best avoided.

Why?



Well, because I understand discussions of this issue often become extremely heated. Also, because I am aware what the Terms of Service say about the issue on this site's sister site, dharmawheel.com.
Hello, I am not actually a Buddhist, and I know only some very limited basics about Buddhism. I'd like to know a bit more and to ask a few questions, if that's OK. :)
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Re: Kadampa Tradition

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:09 pm

Marmalade wrote:
Ben wrote:
Marmalade wrote:And by the way, I think discussion of this Dorje Shugden thing is probably best avoided.

Why?



Well, because I understand discussions of this issue often become extremely heated.
Among vajras, maybe. But this is a Theravadin board. And this qustion has been posed in the 'Discovering Theravada' forum, where the OP is seeking a Theravadin perspective on the original questions posed.

Marmalade wrote:Also, because I am aware what the Terms of Service say about the issue on this site's sister site, dharmawheel.com.
Maybe you should familiarise with Dhamma Wheel's TOS and show me where it says discussion of the naughty ghost is forbidden.
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief
UNHCR Syria Emergency Relief AppealTyphoon Haiyan Relief AppealKiva: (person to person micro-finance)

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
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