Kadampa Tradition

[BJR]

I am very new and just starting to investigate Buddhist thinking and philosophy. I have found out that there is a local meditation event described as being in the New Kadampa Tradition. What is the difference between this and Theravada? Is it something deep and different such as Church of England versus the Catholic church or just two sides of the same coin? Sorry upfront if this is a very ignorant or (hopefully not) offensive question.

[Akuma]

I am very new and just starting to investigate Buddhist thinking and philosophy. I have found out that there is a local meditation event described as being in the New Kadampa Tradition. What is the difference between this and Theravada? Is it something deep and different such as Church of England versus the Catholic church or just two sides of the same coin? Sorry upfront if this is a very ignorant or (hopefully not) offensive question.

I think its deeper than the Church Of England vs Catholic Church as not even the "bibles" are the same - if I'd have to compare that I'd rather compare it like Judaism vs Christianity.
Theravada bases their teachings on the Pali Canon + Pali Commentaries and is using older scriptures while Vajrayana aka Tibetan Buddhism of which New Kadampa is a subschool uses newer scriptures which are also not written in Pali but mostly in Tibetan. Additionally I remember that in Tibetan Buddhism New Kadampa was or is controversial altho I dont remember why.
I'd recommend getting a book about how Buddhism began, divided into different schools and how it spread over different countries. Maybe "Buddhist Thought" by Williams is a good choice.

[Marmalade]

Wikipedia says it's considered controversial.

Qutoe from Wikipedia:

"David V. Barrett has characterized the NKT-IKBU as "one of the newest and most controversial Buddhist movements", mainly due to the Dorje Shugden controversy in the Tibetan community"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Kadampa_Tradition

It's supposed to be Mahayana, rather than Theravada.

[Marmalade]

And by the way, I think discussion of this Dorje Shugden thing is probably best avoided.

[BJR]

Thank you both - guess I need to do some research before I upset people by asking any stupid questions

[Ben]

And by the way, I think discussion of this Dorje Shugden thing is probably best avoided.

Why?

[tamdrin]

Don't go anywhere near the New Kadampa, they are a dangerous cult.

P.S. This question is best asked over at dharmawheel.net

[BJR]

Really? They are running meditation sessions in my local area in council run premises ( Town Halls/ Libraries etc )

[cooran]

And by the way, I think discussion of this Dorje Shugden thing is probably best avoided.

Why?

His Holiness the Dalai Lama's Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)
http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgy ... ess-advice

with metta
Chris

[Mr. G]

Don't go anywhere near the New Kadampa, they are a dangerous cult.

^ This

[tamdrin]

yeah man they are bad news in general.. Especially if they try and get you to do the practice of dorje shugden which is in fact a lama who reincarnated in the hungry ghost realm who is a demon, who they practice against the strict advice of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and cause all sorts of problems in general.. I have heard many many stories about people who got involved with that group and found out it was a BIG mistake. Especially don't take empowerments or vows with them as this will be forming an irreveresible commitment to them with no chance of turning back.

http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgy ... ess-advice

http://www.antishugden.com/

[Ben]

Greetings BJR

From a Theravadin's point of view:
The Vajra community are split into those who support the Kadampa and those who do not. Its true that there is some controversy surrounding the sub-tradition in regards to the propitiation of the spirit 'Shugden'. And seen from afar, it would appear that two camps (Dalai Lama and supporters) and Kadampas are both calling each other 'evil' for arcane historical and political reasons that mean virtually nothing to me except as a curiosity.
As a Theravadin I'm not inclined to take any instruction from the Mahayana or Vajrayana. That is the result of the confidence I have in the tradition (and sub-tradition) in which I practice.
kind regards

Ben

[Akuma]

Ah the demon-worshippers - I knew there was something about them that I forgot
And I dont think anyones upset BJR everyone's a newbie at some point. Just stay calm, grab soem good books and take your time

[BJR]

Good advice I have to say it makes me nervous as it seems like an innocent meditation session in a local council run environment and I find out there is all sorts of undercurrents attached to the discussion topic. I need to learn more from books and the written word (and forums like this) before I expose myself in person to any third parties I don't know.

[tamdrin]

on the otherhand there is nothing with the Kadampa tradition of old, just not the "new" kadampa...

[BJR]

Don't go anywhere near the New Kadampa, they are a dangerous cult.

P.S. This question is best asked over at dharmawheel.net

I posted the question on dharmawheel.net and it has been removed and I get a message that I am not authorized to read the postings. Is someone playing me for a fool?

[Justsit]

A small point of clarification for anyone who might be interested: the organization which propitiates the demon is called "New Kadampa" tradition under the direction of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. It is the only one censured by HH the Dalai Lama. There exists a much earlier body of teaching called "Kadampa" which is not censured, and is, indeed, highly encouraged. Apparently there are some "New Kadampa" centers which fail to make the distinction clear.

*Sorry, Tamdrin, didn't see your post before I submitted this one.

[Ben]

Don't go anywhere near the New Kadampa, they are a dangerous cult.

P.S. This question is best asked over at dharmawheel.net

I posted the question on dharmawheel.net and it has been removed and I get a message that I am not authorized to read the postings. Is someone playing me for a fool?

I don't think so. There may be a clause in their TOS with regards to discussion on new kadampa and shugden. If you have any queries with regards to the removal of your post, it is best to contact one of the admins there and ask them directly.

[Marmalade]

And by the way, I think discussion of this Dorje Shugden thing is probably best avoided.

Why?

Well, because I understand discussions of this issue often become extremely heated. Also, because I am aware what the Terms of Service say about the issue on this site's sister site, dharmawheel.com.

[Ben]

And by the way, I think discussion of this Dorje Shugden thing is probably best avoided.

Why?

Well, because I understand discussions of this issue often become extremely heated.

Among vajras, maybe. But this is a Theravadin board. And this qustion has been posed in the 'Discovering Theravada' forum, where the OP is seeking a Theravadin perspective on the original questions posed.

Also, because I am aware what the Terms of Service say about the issue on this site's sister site, dharmawheel.com.

Maybe you should familiarise with Dhamma Wheel's TOS and show me where it says discussion of the naughty ghost is forbidden.