Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Hi there, I know very little about Theravada Buddhism but have come across it via a website as I was interested in learning a little more about it. For a couple of years I have been a practicing soto zen. As much as I love Zen and it's wisdom's I haven't felt like I've been getting anywhere. I find zazen very difficult, especially as one needs to have one's eyes open throughout it. Before Zen I used to practice at a Tibetan centre of the kagyu school. Once again the meditation was eyes open, plus I found the practice far too intense, fear based and extremely devotional.
I've recently looked up the meditations of vippassana and samatha and they seem very appealing to me, much more so than other Buddhist meditations I have practiced. However I've been told that Theravada can be very strict and is very conservative and othordox, which troubles me slightly.
I love Buddhism, and I have no problems calling myself a Buddhist but I'm just not sure where I belong, in which tradition.

Any feedback would be most welcome.

Greg

A lot of us have been there, moving through various Mahayana schools, finally finding oneself at home with the Theravada, and there a are also a few Zen and Tibetan Buddhists who post here, but this is a good place to learn about the Theravada. Please feel free to ask whatever questions you need to aid your exploration.

I too spent ( quite a long ) time in a Kagyu sangha.

I have been practising under the Theravada"Banner" for some time, and I have not found it to be strict or conservative....

Mind you, I wouldn't classify myself as an educated Theravadin....and in all probability, neither would many others....

But it's the mutt's nuts!

Welcome!

Feeling "torn between two positions" may be caused by desire. A more positive outlook may be appreciating the "agravic state" "in between".


Kind regards

TMingyur wrote:Feeling "torn between two positions" may be caused by desire. A more positive outlook may be appreciating the "agravic state" "in between".


Kind regards

The reality is, of course, that "desire" - being "torn between two positions" - is likely just that with which have have to work. We can only start from where we are.

I have to be honest. I find some of the re birth theories troubling. That doesn't mean to say I don't believe in re birth, I do. But when it comes to the whole hell realms, hungry ghosts, Gods and all that I become dissilussioned. That's one of the reasons I liked zen, cos it stayed clear of all that, but as I said I like the look of the vippassana and samatha meditations, that's what's brought me here.

greggorious wrote:I have to be honest. I find some of the re birth theories troubling. That doesn't mean to say I don't believe in re birth, I do. But when it comes to the whole hell realms, hungry ghosts, Gods and all that I become dissilussioned. That's one of the reasons I liked zen, cos it stayed clear of all that, but as I said I like the look of the vippassana and samatha meditations, that's what's brought me here.

Actually, Zen in its traditional contexts, does not "stay clear" of all that.

One can get into all sorts of fruitless debates about rebirth and the realms, but basically it is something you decide for yourself as to how you want to relate to it. The primary practice is to pay attention, and from that insight unfolds. And over time how you understand and relate to things such as rebirth will also change. These things should not be made to become stumbling blocks to one's practice.

Ok thanks, that's reassuring. I enjoy meditating, and I also believe in the 4 noble truths, the eightfold path and the precepts. When it comes to death, re birth and intermediate states between death I do get put off, I'll admit it. I do have certain views about existence, i.e I believe certain things are layed out for us by the universe, and it's not all down just to chnace. I hope that's not controversial in relation to Buddhism?

Anthropomorphizing the universe is a bit of a sticky widget simply because it's positing a self in claiming the universe has agency in that way.

Thanks Jhana, that was a good response. Do you believe in the 'take what you want and leave the rest' method?

greggorious wrote:I have to be honest. I find some of the re birth theories troubling. That doesn't mean to say I don't believe in re birth, I do. But when it comes to the whole hell realms, hungry ghosts, Gods and all that I become dissilussioned. That's one of the reasons I liked zen, cos it stayed clear of all that, but as I said I like the look of the vippassana and samatha meditations, that's what's brought me here.

Look upon the other realms as states of Mind. I do. It's much simpler that way, and actual;ly proposed by Buddhist scholars far more advanced and educated than I.
If you see the different realms as states of Mind, and mental manifestations, you may find it easier to equate...

http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/bdoo ... realms.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i.e I believe certain things are layed out for us by the universe, and it's not all down just to chnace. I hope that's not controversial in relation to Buddhism?

No, but as you learn about Kamma, you may alter your thinking.
As has been said, "if you wish to know what you once were, look at your body, now. If you wish to know what you will become, look at your Mind, now.
Your Mind-set and volitional actions do much to determine how things unfold.

1. No killing
2. No stealing
3. No intoxicants
4. No lying or inflammatory speech
5. No sexual misconduct ( sex with people who are not mentally competent unattached adults )

Actually, if I may say so.it's:

1. No killing
2. No stealing
3. No sexual misconduct ( sex with people who are not mentally competent unattached adults )
4. No lying or inflammatory speech
5. No intoxicants.

And if I may further elaborate, the precepts are vows to make the effort to not:

1: Harm other beings
2: take anything which is not freely given, if it's in a position to be so.
3: Indulge in immoral or inappropriate sexual behaviour (and to my way of thinking, that entails anything where the other person feels compromised, coerced or compelled, against their will or well-being)
4: indulge in idle unproductive chatter, needless gossip or lying
5: take recreational drugs, alcohol or any other substance that will addle the brain, confuse the mind and cloud the thinking.
(Drugs for medical purposes which have been prescribed as a necessity, are of course, not on that list).

Stick to Theravda (such as Thai Forest tradition).
If that is too much for you, then stick to the Nikayas.
Life is too short.
Don't waste your time.
Go with the earliest, tried and proven formular based upon the direct teachings of the one and only fully awakened one.
Metta.

Its like flowing

To the Ocean

The streams, lakes, and rivers that flow down to the ocean, when they reach the ocean, all have the same blue color, the same salty taste.

The same with human beings: It doesn't matter where they're from — when they reach the stream of the Dhamma, it's all the same Dhamma.

108 Dhamma Similes-byAjahn Chah

greggorious wrote:However I've been told that Theravada can be very strict and is very conservative and othordox, which troubles me slightly.

I think you'll find that that is misinformation.

Yes there is a conservative and orthodox end of the spectrum but when you consider the looser and more open insight meditation movements as part of the spectrum there is quite a breadth of approaches. Even with one of the most strict monastic traditions, the Ajahn Chah tradition, while the discipline is strict I find the people in it very open and experiential in their attitudes and approach to practice.