Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

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VictoryInTruth
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Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby VictoryInTruth » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:33 pm

I am reading a book called ¨The Buddha and His Teachings¨...on page 155 of the book it states that the Buddha said the following:

"If, Ananda, women had not received permission to renounce the world and enter the homeless state under the doctrine and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata, the Holy Life would have lasted long and the Sublime Dhamma would have survived for thousand years. But since women have entered this homeless state, the Holy Life would not last long and the Sublime Dhamma would now remain only for five hundred years.

"Just as, Ananda, houses in which there are many women and but few men are easily violated by burglars, even so, under whatsoever doctrine and discipline women are permitted to renounce the world and enter the homeless state, that Holy Life will not last long."


Why did the Buddha look so negatively on women and blame them as the cause for the Dhamma lasting only 500 years? It seems like he did not have that high of a view of women in the religious life and some 2,500 years later his words on the Dhamma lasting only 500 years has pretty much been proven wrong.

As a woman this makes it seem like there is something wrong with us as we are being made out to be the primary cause for the disappearance of the Dhamma. What are the thoughts of others on this?

:namaste:

Jhana4
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:45 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby Modus.Ponens » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:46 pm

An interesting article about this is here:

http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebsut067.htm

scroll down to the 8 rules part, which is relatively small. If it's true that the 8 rules are not cannonical, the 500 years story isn't too.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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BlackBird
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby BlackBird » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:44 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Ben
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:21 am

Greetings all,
You might find the following interesting if not relevant to this discussion:

Buddhist Women at the Time of The Buddha by Hellmuth Hecker translated from the German by Sister Khema

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el292.html

kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Ben
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:39 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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octathlon
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby octathlon » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:39 am


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Ben
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:46 am




This is a moderator-mediated forum. Discovering Theravada forum is for the provision of information tailored to the needs of the op with material that represents mainstream Theravada. In keeping with the aim of the Discovering Theravada forum, I ask that all members desist from posting their own personal opinions and instead post links to or extracts from published material that answers the op's question.
Thanks for your cooperation.

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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daverupa
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby daverupa » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:02 am


whynotme
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby whynotme » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:41 am

I remember that there are at least 2 suttas about this, one said 500 years the other said 2500 years. And I remember Buddhaghosa explained that the time means the period of result a monk could reach. At first 500 years, Arahant could be attained, in the second 500 years period, the highest state could be attained is Aganami and so on.. Maybe it applies for the mass.

And for the 2500 version, with that explanation the dhamma would exist at least ten thousand yeas.

If I have time I will find it for you.

Regards.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:03 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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VictoryInTruth
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby VictoryInTruth » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:01 pm

I´d like to thank everyone for their responses. :thanks: Whynotme, I hope that you are able to find the references for the 500 and 2,500 soon. As it will help to shed some more light on this matter.

Thanks again.

whynotme
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Re: Dhamma remain only for five hundred years

Postby whynotme » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:30 pm

Sorry, I tried but couldn't find them, even in my language and English. There are several sources on the internet talk about 2500 years version, but I haven't found the source in the suttas yet.

I only found the 500 version but I remember there is at least 2 suttas in 2500 years version because a long time ago, I heard about that 500 years story, and I read in suttas that it is 2500 years and I think people were wrong, this memory is so clear. But recently, I have read the 500 years version and I know that people aren't all wrong as I thought.

I slowly spent several years to read almost all Nikaya suttas to know what the Buddha really said. But that is a gigantic amount and sometimes it is very hard for me to remember where did I read it. I hope I could find it later and if I found them I would let you know.

Regards.
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