perception?

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Gena1480
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perception?

Postby Gena1480 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:50 pm

what is the aggregate of perception?
can someone give me a right understanding of what is perception?
metta

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Re: perception?

Postby plwk » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:55 am

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"'Perception should be known. The cause by which perception comes into play... The diversity in perception... The result of perception... The cessation of perception... The path of practice for the cessation of perception should be known.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said?

"There are these six kinds of perception: the perception of form, the perception of sound, the perception of aroma, the perception of flavor, the perception of tactile sensation, the perception of ideas.

"And what is the cause by which perception comes into play? Contact is the cause by which perception comes into play.

"And what is the diversity in perception? Perception with regard to forms is one thing, perception with regard to sounds is another, perception with regard to aromas is another, perception with regard to flavors is another, perception with regard to tactile sensations is another, perception with regard to ideas is another. This is called the diversity in perception.

"And what is the result of perception? Perception has expression as its result, I tell you. However a person perceives something, that is how he expresses it: 'I have this sort of perception.' This is called the result of perception.

"And what is the cessation of perception? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of perception; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the way leading to the cessation of perception.

"Now when a disciple of the noble ones discerns perception in this way, the cause by which perception comes into play in this way, the diversity of perception in this way, the result of perception in this way, the cessation of perception in this way, & the path of practice leading to the cessation of perception in this way, then he discerns this penetrative holy life as the cessation of perception.

"'Perception should be known. The cause by which perception comes into play... The diversity in perception... The result of perception... The cessation of perception... The path of practice for the cessation of perception should be known.' Thus it has been said, and in reference to this was it said.

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If this single thing is recollected and made much,
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Re: perception?

Postby Ben » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:02 am

Saññā

Saññā (f.) [fr. saŋ+jñā] (pl. saññāyo and saññā -- e. g. M i.108) 1. sense, consciousness, perception, being the third khandha Vin i.13; M i.300; S iii.3 sq.; Dhs 40, 58, 61, 113; VbhA 42. -- 2. sense, perception, discernment, recognition, assimilation of sensations, awareness M i.293; A iii.443 (nibbāna˚); S iii.87; Sn 732 (saññāya uparodhanā dukkhakkhayo hoti; expld as "kāmasaññā" SnA); Miln 61; Dhs 4; DhsA 110, 200 (rūpa˚ perception of material qualities). -- 3. consciousness D i.180 sq.; M i.108; Vbh 369 (nānatta˚ c. of diversity: see nānatta); Miln 159; J iv.391; is previous to ñāṇa D i.185; a constituent part of nāma S ii.3, cp. Sn 779; according to later teaching differs from viññāṇa and paññā only as a child's perceiving differs from (a) an adult's, (b) an expert's Vism 436 sq.; Dhs. trsln 7 n. 2, 17 n. 2. -- nevasaññā -- nâsaññā neither consciousness nor unconsciousness D iii.224, 262 sq.; M i.41, 160; ii.255; iii.28, 44; Ps i.36; Dhs 268, 582, 1417; Kvu 202; Nett 26, 29; Vism 571. -- 4. conception, idea, notion D i.28; iii.289 (cp. Dial. iii.263: "concept rather than percept"); M iii.104; S i.107; Sn 802, 841; J i.368 (ambaphala saññāya in the notion or imagining of mango fruit); Vism 112 (rūpa˚ & aṭṭhika˚). saññaŋ karoti to imagine, to think J ii.71; to take notice, to mind J i.117. -- 5. sign, gesture token, mark J i.287; ii.18; paṇṇa˚ a mark of leaves J i.153; rajjusaññā a rope used as a mark, a guiding rope, J i.287; rukkha -- saññaŋ pabbata -- saññaŋ karonto, using trees and hills as guiding marks J iv.91; saññaŋ dadāti to give the sign (with the whip, for the horse to start) J vi.302. -- 6. saññā is twofold, paṭighasamphassajā and adhivacanasamphassajā i. e. sense impression and recognition (impression of something similar, "association by similarity," as when a seen person calls up some one we know), Vbh 6; VbhA 19 sq.; threefold, rūpasaññā, paṭighasaññā, and nānattasaññā A ii.184; S ii.211; cp. Sn 535; or kāma˚, vyāpāda˚, vihiŋsā˚ (as nānatta˚) Vbh 369, cp. VbhA 499; fivefold (pañca vimutti -- paripācaniyā saññā); anicca˚, anicce dukkha˚, dukkhe anatta˚, pahāna˚, virāga˚ D iii.243, cp. A iii.334; there are six perceptions of rūpa, sadda, gandha, rasa, phoṭṭhabba, and dhamma, D ii.309; S iii.60; the sevenfold perception, anicca -- , anatta -- , asubha -- , ādīnava -- , pahāna -- , virāga -- , and nirodha -- saññā, D ii.79; cp. A iii.79; the tenfold perception, asubha -- , maraṇa -- , āhāre paṭikkūla -- , sabbaloke anabhirata -- , anicca -- , anicce dukkha -- , dukkhe anatta -- , pahāna -- , virāga -- , nirodha -- saññā A v.105; the one perception, āhāre paṭikkūlasaññā, Cpd. 21. -- 7. See further (unclassified refs.): D i.180; ii.277 (papañca˚); iii.33, 223; S ii.143; A ii.17; iv.312; Nd1 193, 207; Nett 27; Vism 111, 437, 461 sq. (in detail); VbhA 20 (pañca -- dvārikā), 34; VvA 110; and on term Cpd. 40, 42.
-- gata perceptible, the world of sense M i.38. -- bhava conscious existence Vism 572; VbhA 183. -- maya= arūpin M i.410 (opp. manomaya=rūpin). -- vedayitanirodha cessation of consciousness and sensation M i.160, 301; iii.45; A i.41; Kvu 202; S ii.212. -- viratta free from consciousness, an Arahant, Sn 847. -- vimokkha emancipation from consciousness Sn 1071 sq.; Miln 159=Vin v.116.

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Re: perception?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:13 am

Here is another dictionary definition:

http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... 3%B1%C4%81
Saññā: 1. 'perception', is one of the 5 groups of existence khandha, and one of the 7 mental properties cetasika that are inseparably bound up with all consciousness see: cetanā It is sixfold as perception of the 5 physical sense-objects and of mental objects. It is the awareness of an object's distinctive marks,one perceives blue, yellow, etc.,; S. XXII, 79. If, in repeated perception of an object, these marks are recognized, saññā functions as 'memory' see: Abh. St., p. 68f..

2. saññā stands sometimes for consciousness in its entirety, e.g. in n'eva-saññā-n'āsaññāyatana 'the realm of neither-perception-nor-non-perception'; further, in asaññā-satta 'unconscious beings'. In both cases reference is not to 'perception' alone, but also to all other constituents of consciousness. Cf. D. 9.

3. saññā may also refer to the 'ideas', which are objects of meditation, e.g. in a group of 7 ideas, of impermanence anicca-s etc. A. VII, 46; of 10: impurity asubha-s etc. A. X, 56, and another set of 10 in A. X. 60; or to wrong notions, as in nicca, subha-s the notion of permanence, beauty, etc.

:anjali:
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Re: perception?

Postby Moth » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:54 pm

I don't understand what Buddha means by ceasing perception, is it that we should, for example, no longer perceive diversity of color? Or should we cease the expression it causes, i.e "I perceive this color"?
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Re: perception?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:20 pm

Greetings Moth,

Nanavira Thera briefly explores the differential between saññá and viññána (perception and consciousness) here...

Notes on Dhamma - Saññá
http://www.nanavira.110mb.com/sn-sanna.htm

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: perception?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:02 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Moth,

Nanavira Thera briefly explores the differential between saññá and viññána (perception and consciousness) here...

Notes on Dhamma - Saññá
http://www.nanavira.110mb.com/sn-sanna.htm

Metta,
Retro. :)

I cannot access that link. I presume that this is the same material:
http://nanavira.xtreemhost.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=85

:anjali:
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Re: perception?

Postby nameless » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:14 pm

Moth,

I don't know if the language is intentional, but note that it says "The path of practice for the cessation of perception should be known.", instead of "cease perception". It's not something you can actively and intentionally cease, but rather following "just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the way leading to the cessation of perception."

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Re: perception?

Postby Gena1480 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:58 pm

i still dont understand it
i need defenition of it, what is perception
the best i understand it, as it is awareness of different marks of object, like color or shape?
from what i understand perception is always changing
we percieve blue color is blue because we have been thought this way
but somebody else may percieve blue as red, from that i can make conclusion that there is no true nature in percetion
it is a fake reality
now the understanding is different but the color stays the same
now how do i understand that the color itself is impermenant?
we know that we have different colors
the question is how does colors change?
and if they have true nature
can some one help me

Gena1480
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Re: perception?

Postby Gena1480 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:14 pm

now i uderstand that perception of color blue is always changing
we percieve blue because we learn that the color blue is called blue
but some one can learn that the color blue is called red
we know that the name is impermanent
can someone tell me how are the colors themself is impermenent?
we know that we have different colors
i know that color themself dont have true nature
some how color arises
if i can know how just one color arises
another question what is contact?

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Re: perception?

Postby Gena1480 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:20 am

we can understand that name color blue is impermanent
as someone may learn name color blue is name blue
and some one may learn color blue as name red
this way we can see that all names are impermanent
but the color blue itself is impermanent
as you all know we have different colors
i can understand that colors create shapes
if use equall understanding
then shapes create colors
how do we have different colors creating shapes
its the angle creates different shapes
now if we take one color blue light and depending of different angle(s)
we can see particle or wave
how does the from one color creates another color
do to intensity of the color, the color changes
another question is how do we put ceassation to intensity
without intensity there can not be color
or light
metta
hope some tells how to do this in meditation :)

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Re: perception?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:07 am

Greetings Mike,
mikenz66 wrote:I cannot access that link. I presume that this is the same material:
http://nanavira.xtreemhost.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=85

Yes, it is... thanks for providing the alternative link. :thumbsup:

I wonder what went on with the link I provided... because I created it "fresh", there and then. :thinking:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)


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