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Revealing Arahantship to laity - Dhamma Wheel

Revealing Arahantship to laity

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clw_uk
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Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby clw_uk » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:36 pm

Greetings



Are members of the Sangha allowed to reveal if they are arahants or not to the laity?





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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:20 am

- Peter


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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:28 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:31 am

Greetings Craig,

I believe the reason it is an offence is because unscrupulous monks could use it as leverage to receive better requisites from the laity, who expect that the merit accumulated from their offerings will be commensurate with the spiritual attainments of the recipient.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby cooran » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:13 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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clw_uk
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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby clw_uk » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:43 am

Thanks for posts


My reason for asking was because Maha Boowa seems to strongly imply that he is an arahant





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Ben
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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby Ben » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:33 am

Hi Craig

It may be more worthwhile concentrating on the teaching and instruction of your own teacher rather than question something that may or not be attributed to another teacher. Ven Maha Boowa may infer that he is an arahant, perhaps it is something that came through via translation, but the important thing is your own practice.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby nathan » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:36 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:33 pm

- Peter


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clw_uk
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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby clw_uk » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:05 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:51 pm

- Peter


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gavesako
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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby gavesako » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:52 pm

Ajahn Maha Boowa has "shed tears of joy" and declared his attainment of arahantship in front of a layperson (actually someone quite advanced in practice, it seems) as well as on camera a few years ago. This has caused a lot of controversy. See Ajahn Jayasaro talking about this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u76o7xZe ... L&index=39

I have recently been contemplating the similarity (in terms of being an "archetype" of a certain kind of monk) between Ajahn Maha Boowa and Maha Kassapa. There are a number of parallels between them. I may write some kind of essay about this later. But just a few points: both of them have followed the example of their teacher and attained high spiritual states; both have become charismatic leaders standing out of the normal Sangha community and sometimes taking initiative in "undemocratic" ways to achieve something; both have gone further than other monks in declaring their attainments openly and with force; both have voiced open criticism against other monks who were not part of their particular group. Often we can read: "Maha Kassapa. The monk that succeeded the Buddha as leader of the Sangha and convened the First Council." Well, he did not actually have the authority to do it, did he? And his authority was apparently not accepted by all. He also demonstrated his superiority over Ananda:


"Beware, friend Ananda, or else the Sangha may further examine you. How is it, friend Ananda, was it you to whom the Exalted One referred in the presence of the Sangha when saying: 'I, O monks, can attain at will the four fine-material and immaterial meditative absorptions, the cessation of perception and feeling, the six supernormal knowledges; and Ananda, too, can so attain'?"

"Not so, venerable sir."

"Or was it that he said: 'Kassapa, too, can so attain'?"

"Yes, venerable sir."


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... 5.html#ch7


And referring to his own attainments, he stated quite frankly that it is not possible to hide them just like it is impossible to cover a mountain with a leaf. That is quite a statement, I think.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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clw_uk
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Re: Revealing Arahantship to laity

Postby clw_uk » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:09 pm

That was a very good video, thank you Bhante


It gives an idea of Moha Boowa's reasoning in revealing his enlightenment
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