SN 12.1, 12.2 Dependent Origination

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Re: SN 12.1, 12.2 Dependent Origination

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:07 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Spiny,

It seems clear that the DO sequence is not linear, and that there are a number of variations from the 12-step formula.


I was reflecting on the general formula for DO which appears in some suttas, ie "When this is, that is; when this arises, that arises...."

Is it the case that "When this is, that is.." refers to non-linear conditionality, whereas "When this arises, that arises..." refers to linear conditionality?

Spiny
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Re: SN 12.1, 12.2 Dependent Origination

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:36 pm

mikenz66 wrote:My main reason for drawing attention to Ajahn Payutto is that the appendix to his book, A problem with the word "nirodha" is particularly relevant to thinking about these suttas. Ajahns Amaro and Pasano quote this in their book "The Island" http://forestsangha.org/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=25

A problem with the word "nirodha"

Generally speaking, the word "cease" means to do away with something which has already arisen, or the stopping of something which has already begun. However, nirodha in the teaching of Dependent Origination (as also in dukkhanirodha, the third of the Four Noble Truths) means the non-arising, or non-existence, of something because the cause of its arising is done away with. http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/coarisea.htm#problem


Yes, this is a useful clarification, though in a practical sense non-arising does result in cessation.

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Re: SN 12.1, 12.2 Dependent Origination

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:23 pm

Hi Spiny,

Your questions go to the heart of the whole DO idea. Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of DN15 (not availale on-line as far as I can see) discusses this vortex of name-and-form and conciousness, as do many of the works of Ven Nanananda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katukurund ... anda_Thera. This essay by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, referred to above https://mettarefuge.wordpress.com/2011/ ... casuality/ or http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... nance.html as well as his book "Wings to Awakening" http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... index.html also discusses non-linearity.

:anjali:
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