SN 12.17 Acela Sutta: To the Clothless Ascetic

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Re: SN 12.17 Acela Sutta: To the Clothless Ascetic

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:39 am

"May I receive the going forth under the Blessed One, may I receive the higher ordination?"

BB: The going forth (pabbajja) is the initial ordination as a novice (samanera); the higher ordination (upasampada) admits the novice to full membership in the Sangha as a bhikkhu.


"Kassapa, one formerly belonging to another sect who desires the going forth..."

BB: For details on the ordination of a wander formerly belonging to another sect, see Vin I 69-71.

Spk: The candidate is actually given the going forth and lives as a novice during the probationary period, after which the bhikkhus give him the higher ordination if they are satisfied with him. The Buddha, however, is entitled to waive the usual procedure when he recognizes that the candidate is sufficiently competent and need not be tested. In Kasspa's case he had the going forth given to him; then, immediately after, Kassapa was brought back to him and he called an assembly of bhikkhus and administered the higher ordination.
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Re: SN 12.17 Acela Sutta: To the Clothless Ascetic

Postby Sam Vara » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:47 am

Mike and Retro,

Thank you for your replies. I thought it was as you say, but appreciate your confirmations.
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Re: SN 12.17 Acela Sutta: To the Clothless Ascetic

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:19 pm

vinasp wrote:Hi Mike,

"It it not that I do not know and see suffering, Kassapa. I know suffering, I see suffering."

My interpretation of this is that it can be understood in two ways.

!. The Buddha remembers what suffering is like, from his life before
his awakening.

2. The Buddha knows and sees suffering in other people, almost everyone
that he encounters - including Kassapa.

Regards, Vincent.

Hi Vincent,

I think your interpretations may be misleading. It seems to me you try to bring suffering together with a person, either for him (the Buddha before his awakening) or for other people but as I see it, this is unnecessary. For me the Buddhas statement "I know suffering, I see suffering" doesn't mean to see suffering for me or for others, it means to know/see how suffering arises, changes, ceases. It's not about "my" suffering, "your" suffering, "their" suffering, it's about knowing/seeing pañc'upādāna-khandha as it is.

best wishes, aicnteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.
Pathabyā ekarajjena, saggassa gamanena vā sabbalokādhipaccena, sotāpattiphalaṃ varaṃ. (Dhp 178)
Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven or lordship over all worlds: the fruit of stream-entry excels them.

:anjali:
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Re: SN 12.17 Acela Sutta: To the Clothless Ascetic

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:00 pm

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