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SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears - Dhamma Wheel

SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

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SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:27 pm

SN 56.35 PTS: S v 440 CDB ii 1606
Sattisata Sutta: One Hundred Spears
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu


Life may be fraught with pain, but the breakthrough to Awakening is utterly painless.
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"Monks, suppose there was a man whose life span was 100 years, who would live to 100. Someone would say to him, 'Look here, fellow. They will stab you at dawn with 100 spears, at noon with 100 spears, & again at evening with 100 spears. You, thus stabbed day after day with 300 spears, will have a lifespan of 100 years, will live to be 100, and at the end of 100 years you will realize the four noble truths that you have never realized before.'

"Monks, a person who desired his own true benefit would do well to take up (the offer). Why is that? From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident for the (pain of) blows from spears, swords, & axes. Even if this (offer) were to occur, I tell you that the realization of the four noble truths would not be accompanied by pain & distress. Instead, I tell you, the realization of the four noble truths would be accompanied by pleasure & happiness.

"Which four? The noble truth of stress, the noble truth of the origination of stress, the noble truth of the cessation of stress, and the noble truth of the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.

"Therefore your duty is the contemplation, 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.'"

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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:33 pm

Bhikkhu Bodhi notes that the simile of being struck by spears also appears in SN 12.63: Puttamansa Sutta: A Son's Flesh

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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby Sylvester » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:10 am

This is another of those suttas that draw a clear distinction between pleasure/sukha and happiness/somanassa.

It does make one wonder how Stream Entry really "feels" like, when there seems to be both a hedonic and affective component to the event.

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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:12 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby Sylvester » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:55 am

It was in response to the qualms expressed by some that sukha in the jhana pericopes cannot possibly be translated as "pleasure" but should be translated as "happiness". It also poses an issue on the nature of this sukha in relation to Nibbana (Nibbana is the highest sukha/nibbānaṃ paramaṃ sukhaṃ), and again we see this bifurcation of pleasure and happiness made in SN 36.19, where additionally, pleasure is used in both its literal and metaphorical senses.

It's also part of my long-running argument that there are 2 types of contact, namely (i) the bodily/kāyika (per SN 36.6) or impingement/paṭighasamphassa (per DN 15) which feels in a hedonic manner, versus (ii) its affective sequel. The mind appears to be able to feel hedonic tone, and to feel it disjointed from the affective tone (see MN 148).

The disjointing seems to me to turn on whether there is "grasping at the sign", a theme that is quite ubiquitous judging from a search on ATI for "grasp at any theme" which yielded 15 suttas. There's probably more, based on a Pali search on VRI.

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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:39 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:34 am


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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby Sylvester » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:37 am


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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby Sylvester » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:50 am


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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:51 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:23 am


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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:39 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:52 pm


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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:33 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:22 pm


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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby Sylvester » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:42 am


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Re: SN 56.35: Sattisata Sutta — One Hundred Spears

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:24 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama


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