Subhasita Sutta

Each week we study and discuss a different sutta or Dhamma text

Moderator: mikenz66

Subhasita Sutta

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:02 am

Snp 3.3 PTS: Sn 450-454
Subhasita Sutta: Well-Spoken
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Savatthi at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. There he addressed the monks, "Monks!"

"Yes, lord," the monks replied.

The Blessed One said: "Monks, speech endowed with four characteristics is well-spoken, not poorly spoken — faultless & not to be faulted by the wise. Which four? There is the case where a monk says only what it well-spoken, not what is poorly spoken; only what is just, not what is unjust; only what is endearing, not what is unendearing; only what is true, not what is false. Speech endowed with these four characteristics is well-spoken, not poorly spoken — faultless & not to be faulted by the wise."

That is what the Blessed One said. Having said this, the One Well-Gone, the Teacher, said further:

The calm say that what is well-spoken is best;
second, that one should say
what is just, not unjust;
third, what's endearing, not unendearing;
fourth, what is true, not false.
Then Ven. Vangisa, rising from his seat, arranging his robe over one shoulder, faced the Blessed One with his hands palm-to-palm in front of his heart and said, "An inspiration has come to me, Blessed One! An inspiration has come to me, One Well-Gone!"

"Let the inspiration come to you, Vangisa," the Blessed One said.

Then Ven. Vangisa praised the Blessed One to his face with these attractive verses:

Speak only the speech
that neither torments self
nor does harm to others.
That speech is truly well spoken.

Speak only endearing speech,
speech that is welcomed.
Speech when it brings no evil
to others
is pleasant.

Truth, indeed, is deathless speech:
This is an ancient principle.
The goal and the Dhamma
— so say the calm —
are firmly established on truth.

The speech the Awakened One speaks,
for attaining Unbinding,
rest,
for making an end
to the mass of stress:
That is the speech unexcelled.



:buddha1:
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
jcsuperstar
 
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska

Re: Subhasita Sutta

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:09 am

Greetings,

This is an interesting proposition...

Truth, indeed, is deathless speech:
This is an ancient principle.


... that if taken literally, would infer that the either the deathless is available whenever the truth is spoken (including before the Buddha's enlightenment).

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14672
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Subhasita Sutta

Postby BlackBird » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:37 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

This is an interesting proposition...

Truth, indeed, is deathless speech:
This is an ancient principle.


... that if taken literally, would infer that the either the deathless is available whenever the truth is spoken (including before the Buddha's enlightenment).

Metta,
Retro. :)


Hi Retro

I took that phrase to mean that truth leads to the deathless, that it does not reinforce atta-ditthi and is therefore of that kamma which is 'neither dark nor bright.'

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
User avatar
BlackBird
 
Posts: 1861
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Subhasita Sutta

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:40 am

Greetings Jack,

Quite possible. 'Verse' in particular, is difficult to translate in an accurate or technically/grammatically correct way.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14672
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Subhasita Sutta

Postby BlackBird » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:48 am

Indeed :)
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
User avatar
BlackBird
 
Posts: 1861
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Subhasita Sutta

Postby Freawaru » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:48 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

This is an interesting proposition...

Truth, indeed, is deathless speech:
This is an ancient principle.


... that if taken literally, would infer that the either the deathless is available whenever the truth is spoken (including before the Buddha's enlightenment).

Metta,
Retro. :)


I think to speak truth one has to know truth - otherwise it is just sounds meaning something else.
Freawaru
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:26 pm


Return to Study Group

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Neonative and 5 guests