Satipaṭṭhāna: the direct path to realization.
I will leave it up to Samvega to lead the discussion. Further details should follow shortly.
Mike
Moderator: mikenz66



Sacha G wrote:Hi,
I don't have Ven. Analayo's book for the moment, but will receive it in some days. However what I remeber from Ven. Sujato's opinion on the Satipatthana, is that the section on the body is (exclusively?) concerned with the 32 parts and the 4 elements, and the section on the Dhammas with the 5 hindreances and the 7 Factors of Awakening.


Dmytro wrote:This book is heavily influenced by the "bare attention" (aka "choiceless awareness") approach of Ven. Analayo's teacher, Ven. Nyanaponika. The "choiceless awareness" was first introduced by Krishnamurti, and modified by Ven. Nyanaponika.
Since the "choiceless awareness" doesn't have support in Buddha's words, reading it in the Satipatthana sutta is misguiding.
Dmytro wrote:The Buddha's words themselves present quite different description of Satipatthana:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5656#p88181
Dmytro wrote:Other misconceptions of this book include:
- interpretation of 'parimukham' as 'in front'
"...alternative ways of practise, based on a more figurative understanding of the term, cannot be categorically excluded. In fact, several modern teachers have developed successful approaches to mindfulness of breathing independent of the nostril area. Some, for example..."page 128 (chapter VI.3)
dmytro wrote:Since the "choiceless awareness" doesn't have support in Buddha's words, reading it in the Satipatthana sutta is misguiding.
a bhikkhu lives contemplating the body in the body..feelings in the feelings..consciousness in consciousness..mental objects in mental objects, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief."
Just as a rock of one solid mass remains unshaken by the wind, even so neither forms, nor sounds, nor odors, nor tastes, nor contacts of any kind, neither the desired nor the undesired, can cause such a one to waver. Steadfast is his mind, gained is deliverance. - A. VI. 55

bodom wrote:dmytro wrote:Since the "choiceless awareness" doesn't have support in Buddha's words, reading it in the Satipatthana sutta is misguiding.
Choiceless awareness simply means that with awareness one remains impartial, to all sense experience without reacting with greed or hatred, like or dislike. It is choiceless in the sense of no preference or judgement to what is experienced and certainly has support in the suttas:a bhikkhu lives contemplating the body in the body..feelings in the feelings..consciousness in consciousness..mental objects in mental objects, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief."Just as a rock of one solid mass remains unshaken by the wind, even so neither forms, nor sounds, nor odors, nor tastes, nor contacts of any kind, neither the desired nor the undesired, can cause such a one to waver. Steadfast is his mind, gained is deliverance. - A. VI. 55
The commentary on the Mahasatipatthana Sutta (Sv III 759) reads: abhijjhadomanassavinayena
bhavanabalam (same in CSCD) vuttan ti. This gloss also
occurs in the commentary to the Satipatthana Sutta of the Majjhima NikAya
(Ps I 244), but it has phala (same in CSCD) instead of bala. Ven. Nyanuttara
probably refers to the reading in Ps rather than Sv. Searching CSCD, I only
found one other occurrence of this expression at Patis-a I 177, which has phala
instead of bala, agreeing with the reading of Ps.
bodom wrote:Choiceless awareness simply means that with awareness one remains impartial, to all sense experience without reacting with greed or hatred, like or dislike.
It is choiceless in the sense of no preference or judgement to what is experienced and certainly has support in the suttas:a bhikkhu lives contemplating the body in the body..feelings in the feelings..consciousness in consciousness..mental objects in mental objects, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief."
Just as a rock of one solid mass remains unshaken by the wind, even so neither forms, nor sounds, nor odors, nor tastes, nor contacts of any kind, neither the desired nor the undesired, can cause such a one to waver. Steadfast is his mind, gained is deliverance. - A. VI. 55
The expression “choiceless awareness” has been conflated with Ven Nyanaponika's neologism “bare attention,” and rather wooley things have been said about the two, as if the fuzzy, wooley things said are an accurate expression of bare attention truly is. It seem that if you are going to continue your crusade against “bare attention” that you accurately reflect what it is before you try to beat it up. So far, you are not so good on that account, which means that your criticism falls flat, fails to engage, rings hollow, and has no substance.Dmytro wrote:. . .
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