Alara Kalama on Dhamma Wiki

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.

Alara Kalama on Dhamma Wiki

Postby Xtofu80 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:42 pm

Hello,
I registered at dhamma-wiki. However, I can neighter make any changes nor even add some point for discussion.
In addition, when I come to this forum, there is no clear indication where to post questions about dhamma-wiki.

My original point is:
In the article about Alara Kalama, it says that Buddha practiced austerities under Alara Kalama.
However, in the Pali sources (MN 26), there is no mentioning of this. Rather, Alara Kalama mainly taught meditation and the base of nothingness.
Do you have any sources for this claim about the austerities? Else, I would rather remove that statement.
Xtofu80
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 7:04 am

Alara Kalama on Dhamma Wiki

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:48 pm

I can confirm that the facts about Alara Kalama are incorrect.

The Bodhisatta did not practise austerities when he was meditating with him, nor with Udaka Ramaputta. It was only after leaving them that he undertook ascetic practices.
AIM WebsitePāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Alara Kalama on Dhamma Wiki

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:03 am

Xtofu80 wrote:Hello,
I registered at dhamma-wiki. However, I can neighter make any changes nor even add some point for discussion.
In addition, when I come to this forum, there is no clear indication where to post questions about dhamma-wiki.


(I moved your post to a new thread.)

From the front page on Dhamma Wiki:

Anyone may suggest an article. E-mail david(at)TheDhamma(dot)com for any ideas you have for an article and it will be reviewed and may be added. All articles must first be e-mailed to avoid automatic bot vandalism (which has occurred in the past).


Thanks for the revision info. I will make that change.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8218
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Alara Kalama on Dhamma Wiki

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:03 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I can confirm that the facts about Alara Kalama are incorrect.

The Bodhisatta did not practise austerities when he was meditating with him, nor with Udaka Ramaputta. It was only after leaving them that he undertook ascetic practices.


Thanks for that confirmation, Bhante. :bow:
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8218
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Alara Kalama on Dhamma Wiki

Postby anjali » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:44 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I can confirm that the facts about Alara Kalama are incorrect.

The Bodhisatta did not practise austerities when he was meditating with him, nor with Udaka Ramaputta. It was only after leaving them that he undertook ascetic practices.


Thanks for that confirmation, Bhante. :bow:


If this is so, then who or what influenced the Buddha to become a tapasvin and take up such intense ascetic practices? I've heard speculation that perhaps the Buddha came under Jain influence during this phase?

I came across this quote from The Historical Buddha: The Times, Life, and Teachings of the Founder of Buddhism By Hans Wolfgang Schumann, pg 40, "Already in the Rgveda we learn that the god Indra owed his position in heaven to tapas, but it was only in the seventh/sixth century BC that the tapas theory became really popular." I have no idea what evidence the author is basing his assertion on of the growth in popularity of tapas in the 7th/6th century BC.
User avatar
anjali
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:05 am

Re: Alara Kalama on Dhamma Wiki

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:57 pm

anjali wrote:If this is so, then who or what influenced the Buddha to become a tapasvin and take up such intense ascetic practices? I've heard speculation that perhaps the Buddha came under Jain influence during this phase?

According to the Commentaries, he had to undertake the ascetic practices due to his past kamma when he insulted the Buddha Kassapa when he was the Brahmin youth Jotipāla.
AIM WebsitePāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Alara Kalama on Dhamma Wiki

Postby anjali » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:18 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
anjali wrote:If this is so, then who or what influenced the Buddha to become a tapasvin and take up such intense ascetic practices? I've heard speculation that perhaps the Buddha came under Jain influence during this phase?

According to the Commentaries, he had to undertake the ascetic practices due to his past kamma when he insulted the Buddha Kassapa when he was the Brahmin youth Jotipāla.

This certainly gets at the root cause, but I was thinking more in terms of the historical life events of Siddhartha.

The path of tapas seems to have been an important part of the seekers' milieu of his time. After giving up on meditation, asceticism certainly seems to have been the only practice left to try. During, or after, spending time with Alara Kalama and Udaka Ramaputta, he must have come across the theory and practice of tapas, as well as at least heard about who the highly regarded tapasvins of his day were.
User avatar
anjali
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:05 am

Re: Alara Kalama on Dhamma Wiki

Postby Mkoll » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:14 pm

Since the Buddha awakened to the Middle Way between the extremes of sensual indulgence and self-mortification, it makes sense that he would have to gain experience in both before arriving at the Middle Way. Before he made this discovery, he had to get the right "credentials", if you will. Thus, we have his luxurious early life and later practice of tapas.

I imagine it would always have to occur in that order as well, never the other way around.
Peace,
James
User avatar
Mkoll
 
Posts: 3851
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: California, USA


Return to Early Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests