Disrobing
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:05 am
I would like to know the reasons why monks disrobe. Have you disrobed and if so why? No judgments here- just trying to understand. Thanks.
with metta
Matheesha
with metta
Matheesha
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That makes sense, being able to devote most of your time to those things are what being a monk has to offer, uniquely. If a person isn't applying themselves to those things then they are depriving themselves pointlessly.Zom wrote:
I would add a little bit:
Buddha said in SN that monks, who don't restrain themselves in the area of 6 senses, don't practice moderate eating, don't practice meditation - have a possibility to disrobe. But those who do all that - they have no such possibility.
I disorbed, and am no longer an orb.rowyourboat wrote:I would like to know the reasons why monks disrobe. Have you disrobed and if so why? No judgments here- just trying to understand. Thanks.
with metta
Matheesha
There is no esoteric teaching in Buddhism — at least not in the Theravāða. The Vinaya is open for lay people to study if they wish to.Gena1480 wrote:this teaching should not be available to lay people
This section explains the meaning of the Mangala Dhamma “well-trained in discipline” in relation to a lay person’s Vinaya. Lay people have a natural discipline called “Good conduct” (sucarita vinaya), and “Virtuous conduct” (ācāra vinaya), which they should try to maintain in full with faith and diligence. This ethical conduct was prescribed for the laity by the Buddha, so they do not need to learn the Vinaya for monks.
However, wise lay persons who want to promote the Buddha’s teachings, and are well versed in their own discipline, do need to learn the monks’ Vinaya. Why? Those who are well-trained in the householder’s discipline become truly good people, so their minds and motives are good. If they are well controlled by the lay person’s discipline, after learning the monks’ Vinaya, they will not use their knowledge unwisely. They will not defile themselves with impure physical, vocal, and mental actions. They will not accumulate evil motives and evil kammas because of this new knowledge. In the commentary it is mentioned that a wise, learned brahmin, after listening to the monks’ Vinaya rules in detail, developed a clear mind and strong faith in the Sangha. He appreciated the power and significance of the monks’ Vinaya as clear understanding had revealed its profundity.
One day a devoted brahmin heard the monks reciting their Vinaya rules. Appreciating the benefits of these numerous rules he entered the Sangha. Thus one’s own attitude and motive are crucial to evaluate the knowledge of Vinaya rules and the diverse conduct of monks.
The way for a lay person to study the Vinaya is first to learn and practise the lay person’s Vinaya, which gives culture, wisdom, and knowledge. A lay person must be dedicated to observing lay ethics with perfect integrity. If integrity is lacking, a lay person, though learned in ethics, becomes a hypocrite with sham morality. He or she becomes a bad person. This type of lay person, who learns the monks’ Vinaya, will develop a fault-finding attitude. Seeing only the offences and weaknesses of monks, he or she will blame, slander, and abuse them. So there is no benefit for such a lay person in learning the monks’ Vinaya. Since he or she fails to learn and practise the lay person’s Vinaya well, he or she lacks fundamental virtues and a skilful mental attitude. So it is futile to learn the monks’ Vinaya, since he or she will criticise the conduct of wayward monks, interfering in the affairs of others. Such a person who quotes the Vinaya texts and blames the monks, makes evil kamma because he or she lacks the virtues of a good and moral person. Due to these defects he or she takes a superior stance, uttering words of condemnation and slander. Thus, grave evil kammas result from his or her learning.
Thankfully it is open to the laity to study because I really enjoy studying the ways of the bhikkhus and bhikkhunis.Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:There is no esoteric teaching in Buddhism — at least not in the Theravāða. The Vinaya is open for lay people to study if they wish to.Gena1480 wrote:this teaching should not be available to lay people
I also agree with this, Buckwheat. Maybe it's not so much of a bad thing after all. I never really thought about it in terms like that. I know in the suttas there is the case of the bhikkhu who kept disrobing and re-robing, and finally the Buddha put a limit on as to how much a person could ordain in one lifetime. I forget which sutta though.Buckwheat wrote:Temporary ordination is more productive than going to college to join a fraternity.
As with all things, it depends very much on the intention.theravada_guy wrote:And, I agree with Goofaholix. I don't like the idea of Going Forth with the intention that it is only temporary, either. I can understand someone who takes ordination, but then realizes it's not for him/her, but not the whole temporary ordination thing.