Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Crazy cloud » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:00 pm

ArkA wrote:

What do they "celebrate" on January 16th?


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Phra Bodhiñāṇathera
(Chah Subaddho)
AjahnChah.jpg
School Theravada, Maha Nikaya
Other name(s)
Luang Por Chah (หลวงพ่อชา),
Luang Pu Chah (หลวงปู่ชา),
Ajahn Chah (อาจารย์ชา)
Dharma name(s)
Subaddho
Personal
Nationality Thai
Born 17 June 1918
Ubon, Thailand
Died 16 January 1992 (aged 73)
Ubon, Thailand



Be well and happy :)
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby ArkA » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:01 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Phra Bodhiñāṇathera
...
...
Died 16 January 1992 (aged 73)


I see... I thought that kind of a sangha-sannipata should be on May celebrating the Tathagata. However, I have seen in some other traditions too putting more weight on celebrating the founding figure of the "tradition".

Thanks, anyway.

:)
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20572
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby melancholy » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:36 pm

ArkA wrote:I see... I thought that kind of a sangha-sannipata should be on May celebrating the Tathagata. However, I have seen in some other traditions too putting more weight on celebrating the founding figure of the "tradition".

Thanks, anyway.

:)


these excerpts prove that the buddha never entertained celebrating the tathagata:

Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Ananda, the twin sal-trees are in full bloom, even though it's not the flowering season. They shower, strew, & sprinkle on the Tathagata's body in homage to him. Heavenly coral-tree blossoms are falling from the sky... Heavenly sandalwood powder is falling from the sky... Heavenly music is playing in the sky... Heavenly songs are sung in the sky, in homage to the Tathagata. But it is not to this extent that a Tathagata is worshipped, honored, respected, venerated, or paid homage to. Rather, the monk, nun, male lay follower, or female lay follower who keeps practicing the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, who keeps practicing masterfully, who lives in accordance with the Dhamma: that is the person who worships, honors, respects, venerates, & pays homage to the Tathagata with the highest homage. So you should train yourselves: 'We will keep practicing the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, we will keep practicing masterfully, we will live in accordance with the Dhamma.' That's how you should train yourselves."

"And, lord, what course should we follow with regard to the Tathagata's body?"

"You are not to be concerned about the Tathagata's funeral. Please, Ananda, strive for the true goal, be committed to the true goal, dwell heedful, ardent, & resolute for the sake of the true goal. There are wise nobles, brahmans, & householders who are highly confident in the Tathagata. They will conduct the Tathagata's funeral."

-Digha Nikaya 16, Mahaparinibbana Sutta


When The Buddha declared his final passing away in four months' time, Ven. Attadattha, having resolved to become an arahant during the lifetime of The Buddha, was meditating alone. However, common worldling bhikkhus who were worried and kept themselves close to The Buddha. Not understanding Ven. Attadattha, they took him to The Buddha and said: “Venerable sir, this bhikkhu does not seem to love and respect you as we do, and he only keeps to himself.” And upon hearing Ven. Attadattha's resolution to become an arahantduring the lifetime of The Master, The Buddha said to bhikkhus: “Those who love and respect me should act like Attadattha. You are not paying me homage just by offering flowers, perfumes, and incense and by coming to see me. You pay me homage only by practising the Dhamma I have taught.”

-Commentry to Dhammapada 166


may all be happy! :)
Power can make things disappear, so does me :D

Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Now, if it occurs to any of you — 'The teaching has lost its authority; we are without a Teacher' — do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.

-Dīgha Nikāya 16, Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
__________________________________

gO tO wORK, gET mARRIED, hAVE sOME kIDS;
wATCH yOUR tV, fOLLOW fASHION, aCT nORMAL;
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:23 pm

15 years or so ago I've read Tim Wards Book "What the Buddha never taught". And thankfully after reading this I still wanted to travel to WPN to experience it by myself. I found an (anonymous) review on amazon quite fitting to my own reading of the book:

The author travelled to the Thai Temple for International Monks, Wat Pah Nanachat, and spent a brief period there practicing the dharma. Most of what he found out there is essentially valid. Namely: 1.) you don't need to be a monk in order to meditate; 2.) many of the rules in the vinaya don't always make sense in modern life; 3.) Samsara is a mental state; and 4.) disciples can and do misinterpret their teachers.

As someone with a philosophy background, he was also quick to pick up the fundamentals of the philosophy of buddhism and buddhist practice. By the end of the book, he was at least able to recognize and apologize for his passive-agressive attacks, tests, and harangues of the monks there, which he describes with admirable frankness. I was very impressed by the restraint exercised by the monks in the face of this. The monks were remarkably kind and tolerant; they must have regarded Tim Ward's personal attacks and outbursts with compassion.

I read this book because I was interested in Wat Pah Nanachat, and this is a book about a brief stay at Wah Pah Nanachat. Tim Ward is a journalist, and was on a trip through asia in which he sampled various different religions and temples. It was interesting in its own right for being a beginner's tale, but would have been more illuminating had the author been more experienced by the time he arrived at Pah Nanachat, or spent much more time there sincerely practicing.


It is also written from the standpoint of a journalist who appreciates scandal and drama more than peace and harmony. In the book, Mr. Ward has real difficulty following the part of the eightfold path dedicated to right speech, and also observing the fundamental rule of not looking to others to judge how they are practicing, but rather looking inwardly.

The author remarks several time throughout the book about how he is an author, and how he made plans during meditation time for writing books, teaching at a university etc. It almost seems as if the dialogue in the book was engaged in for the purpose of putting it into this book.

Still, there were some remarkable facts about life at Wat Pah Nanachat that stand out: giant cobras, killer centipedes, scorpions and spiders as big as a hand, huge flying insects, pervasive swarms of biting insects, olives pickled in cow urine to fight constant constipation caused by eating all food for the day in one meal, and descriptions of strange Thai fruits. The Jungle around the Wat was reminiscent of the description of the garden of eden in Paradise Lost, with more thorns and biting insects.

On the whole though, this book is not recommended for those on the path.


For further interest in Mr. Ward (who is an excellent entertaining writer by the way - but not very accurate I guess) I found a two part interview on Youtube about his book:
http://youtu.be/LHLRsbe8kI8
Last edited by Sokehi on Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby gavesako » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:50 pm

Tim Ward's book is full of factual mistakes and inaccuracies which are only to be expected of someone who popped into the monastery for five minutes in order to write a book about it. You would be advised to consult other sources as well to gain a balanced perspective on what goes on at WPN.

Regarding the 16th January and what happens there:

Ajahn Chah Memorial Day and Yearly Sangha Meeting
Updated over a year ago · Taken at Wat Nong Pah Pong, January 16, 2011
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 068&type=3
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

ajahnchah.org - Teachings of Ajahn Chah in many languages
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby ArkA » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:12 am

I heard about Tim Ward's book, but never read it as I have no reason to go to WPN. I'm very happy and free here in my kuti at my parent's estate away from any religious organizations and bondages to them. Although I did hear some stories regarding WPN from some monks and ex-monks.

Few of my friends entertaining the thought of visiting WPN with the prospect of ordination, that's why I was curious about:
gavesako wrote:Sometimes they do not come back to WPN for a whole year, although now everybody should gather at the annual January 16th celebration in Wat Pah Pong.


I thought whether there going to be some sort of expelling saying "ditthivipatti" as in the case of Ajahn Brahm. That's why I asked the question:
ArkA wrote:should gather"
Is this means all the monks who ordained at WPN are required to travel to WPN on January 16th? If yes, then what action will be taken for a monk who didn't?


Thank you for the help!

:anjali:
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20572
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:08 am

melancholy wrote:these excerpts prove that the buddha never entertained celebrating the tathagata: ...

Not "celebrating" perhaps, but recollecting the Buddha is certainly approved of in that sutta:
So they act in regard to a Universal Monarch’s body, and as they act in regard to a Universal Monarch’s body so should they act in regard to a Realised One’s body, and a Shrine should be made for the Realised One at the crossroads. Whoever there prepares flowers, incense, or powder, or worships or establishes confidence in his mind, that will be for their benefit and happiness for a long time.
http://suttacentral.net/dn16/en

:anjali:
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Crazy cloud » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:39 am

ArkA wrote:
Crazy cloud wrote:...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Phra Bodhiñāṇathera
...
...
Died 16 January 1992 (aged 73)


I see... I thought that kind of a sangha-sannipata should be on May celebrating the Tathagata. However, I have seen in some other traditions too putting more weight on celebrating the founding figure of the "tradition".

Thanks, anyway.

:)


Hi, and thanks, and I would like to recommend listening to some of the speakers/dhammatalks provided by some of Ajhan Cha's diciples/students. Here's a nice talk by one of the "best" :) Be well and happy!

Lastet opp 23. jun. 2011
Ajahn Sumedho delivers an inspiring Dhamma talk centered around the conditioning we receive throughout our lives, and the tools one can use to see clearly and to realise the peace of the unconditioned.

The talk was given at the Ajahn Chah Remembrance Day on 16 January 2010 in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

The set of DVD's (Refuge in the Triple Gem), from which this talk was taken, has been sponsored for free distribution by generous supporters in Malaysia, with gratitude and respect for the Forest Sangha. If you wish to help such productions to continue to be made freely available, please contact sianmah@gmail.com.


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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby melancholy » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:39 pm

ArkA wrote:
gavesako wrote:...although now everybody should gather at the annual January 16th celebration in Wat Pah Pong.


"should gather"
Is this means all the monks who ordained at WPN are required to travel to WPN on January 16th? If yes, then what action will be taken for a monk who didn't?


much written, but ArkA's simple question not yet answered! :)

i too like ajahn chah's simple yet profound teachings (as appear in some books) which goes along with the buddha's words. :anjali: but i do not share the same interest regarding the thai buddhism and power hierarchies, which according to some has "deviated from the original egalitarian spirit of the sangha". ArkA, go through this link to have a different perspective.

below quote given by an old friend: ;)

Whenever the inconsistencies between the tradition and the original scriptures are pointed out, they attack and discredit the criticizer, typically saying such as you just have 'dust in their eyes', rather than responding to the argument in terms of Dhamma-Vinaya, because it is of course impossible that the institution (i.e. the abbots) could ever conceivably be wrong, according to their own system of teachings, because they see themselves as 'Buddhism'. It is effectively a cult of the abbots, not Buddhism.
Power can make things disappear, so does me :D

Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Now, if it occurs to any of you — 'The teaching has lost its authority; we are without a Teacher' — do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.

-Dīgha Nikāya 16, Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
__________________________________

gO tO wORK, gET mARRIED, hAVE sOME kIDS;
wATCH yOUR tV, fOLLOW fASHION, aCT nORMAL;
pAY yOUR tAXES, pAY yOUR bILLS, oBEY tHE lAW;
aND rEPEAT aFTER mE: "i aM fREE."
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby appicchato » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:31 pm

ArkA wrote:
"should gather"
Is this means all the monks who ordained at WPN are required to travel to WPN on January 16th?


much written, but ArkA's simple question not yet answered! :)


No
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby ArkA » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:07 pm

appicchato wrote:No


Finally. :) Thank you. :anjali:

melancholy wrote:i too like ajahn chah's simple yet profound teachings (as appear in some books) which goes along with the buddha's words. :anjali: but i do not share the same interest regarding the thai buddhism and power hierarchies, which according to some has "deviated from the original egalitarian spirit of the sangha". ArkA, go through this link to have a different perspective.

below quote given by an old friend: ;)

Whenever the inconsistencies between the tradition and the original scriptures are pointed out, they attack and discredit the criticizer, typically saying such as you just have 'dust in their eyes', rather than responding to the argument in terms of Dhamma-Vinaya, because it is of course impossible that the institution (i.e. the abbots) could ever conceivably be wrong, according to their own system of teachings, because they see themselves as 'Buddhism'. It is effectively a cult of the abbots, not Buddhism.


And melancholy, thank you very much for sharing those links. You're a keen and a sharp observer. :anjali: It's always good to remove the icing, and regardless of the image or the fluency in beautiful words, people can be known by their behaviour in difficult or opposing situations.

"Great king, being a layman who enjoys sensual pleasures and dwelling in a home crowded with children, it is difficult for you to know: 'These are arahants or these have entered upon the Path to arahantship.
[1]Virtue should be known by living together.
[2]Honesty should be known by dealing.
[3]Courage should be known in adversities.
[4]Wisdom should be known by discussion.
And that, after a long time mindfully, by one who attends wisely, not otherwise."

[Samyutta Nikaya 3.11, Sattajatila Sutta]
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20572
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:20 pm

Well still these rumours and accussations are second hand knowledge for most of us here. To say that some icing has been removed because such and such a person experienced this or that is in my view a false believe in the subjective experience of another person in a particular situation. One has to know for ones own, this truly is sharp observation in my eyes before coming to rather easy conclutions sometimes (not always) based on gossip :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby ArkA » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:59 pm

Sokehi wrote:Well still these rumours and accussations are second hand knowledge for most of us here. To say that some icing has been removed because such and such a person experienced this or that is in my view a false believe in the subjective experience of another person in a particular situation. One has to know for ones own, this truly is sharp observation in my eyes before coming to rather easy conclutions sometimes (not always) based on gossip :anjali:


:) Dear friend, to clarify things to you. I haven't been to WPN but I have been to other monasteries including to the monasteries which belongs to the same tradition. I also have friends at WPN. Also, I know a monk who knows melancholy, and I must say what he writes is borderline. If you want first hand knowledge, melancholy can give you enough but I guess he don't want to turn things into verbal daggers.

On a personal note: "One has to know for ones own", yes I do know for my own, but I don't talk about them in here since in some one's eye I'm just "such and such a person" and "second hand knowledge". Personally, since I have my own first hand knowledge I don't neglect or look down on "such and such a person", period.

May you be healthy and happy! :)
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20572
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:02 pm

ArkA wrote::) Dear friend, to clarify things to you. I haven't been to WPN but I have been to other monasteries including to the monasteries which belongs to the same tradition. I also have friends at WPN. Also, I know a monk who knows melancholy, and I must say what he writes is borderline. If you want first hand knowledge, melancholy can give you enough but I guess he don't want to turn things into verbal daggers.

On a personal note: "One has to know for ones own", yes I do know for my own, but I don't talk about them in here since in some one's eye I'm just "such and such a person" and "second hand knowledge". Personally, since I have my own first hand knowledge I don't neglect or look down on "such and such a person", period.

May you be healthy and happy! :)


:goodpost:
my apologies, apparently I was a bit fast in formulating. especially in english where sometimes words might sneek in with a rather different meaning that I intendet. For example today I thought "gossip" is a bit harsh, I would have changed it to "hearsay" afterwards. I stayed at WPN being a Pahkow ten years ago, and not everything and everyone I met there was very inspiring to say the least. But the (at least it appears to me so) "fashion" of bashing on the so called "Wat Pah Pong Group" or "Wat Pah Nanachat Monks" in a rather unfriendly way... well that's something that I'm quite tired of. What I found there: human beings on the path, some struggling, trying to make the best out of there accumulated habits and neuroses ... same probably as we try in our lay life. It is easy to critisize monks or thinking about them as being part of "that community" and therefore they must all be the same, in good or in bad. They are trying to life by the dhamma vinaya in a rather nationalistic thai cultural environment. And what I came to know: that is not easy. I'm fond of Ajahn Brahm and fond of the bhikkhuni ordinations for example, but on the other hand I can understand that the thai culture and the thai laity for example especially in the rural parts might not be really ready for this. To be in charge of a monastery as observed as Wat Pah Nanachat must be a hell of a task - sandwiched between thai culture and western monastics, western visitors and western way of life. So yes I'm a bit tired of that bashing. I'm not saying that you did! I was more referring to the Wards Book and I'm assuming that a lot of the information that book contains is very, very subjective and biased - looking for funny weired stuff in the monastery and drama to write a nice dramatic book. My posting got mixed up and I know now that it was unskilfull to formulate it in that particular way. Please accept my apologies, friend :namaste:

P.s. pardon my english and english grammar. it's still challenging :D
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby ArkA » Thu May 01, 2014 2:04 pm

“Bhikkhus, if anyone should speak against me (i.e. The Buddha), Dhamma, or Sangha, you should not either bear malice, suffer heartburning, or feel ill will. If you should be angry and hurt, that would only be a hindrance to you in your own self conquest. If, when anyone speaks against us, you feel angry and displeased at that, would you then be able to judge how far that speech of theirs is well said or ill? But when anyone speak against me, Dhamma, or Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as wrong, saying: 'For this or that reason this is not the fact, that is not so, such a thing is not found among us, is not in us.'

Also, if anyone should praise me, Dhamma, or Sangha, you should not, be filled with pleasure, gladness, or be lifted up in heart. Were you to be so, that also would only be a hindrance to you in your own self conquest. When anyone praises me, Dhamma, or Sangha, you should acknowledge what is right to be the fact, saying: 'For this or that reason this is the fact that is so, such a thing is found among us, is in us.'”

[Digha Nikaya 1, Brahmajala Sutta] copied from page 53.


Dear Sokehi. A sincere apology is always accepted, friend! :)
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20572
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu May 08, 2014 7:43 am

gavesako wrote:Tim Ward's book is full of factual mistakes and inaccuracies which are only to be expected of someone who popped into the monastery for five minutes in order to write a book about it. You would be advised to consult other sources as well to gain a balanced perspective on what goes on at WPN.

I don't recall meeting Tim Ward while I was at Wat Pah Nanachat , but I am pretty sure that it is factually inaccurate to say that he only popped into the monastery for five minutes. It must have been at least five days. It seems that he ordained too.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby ArkA » Thu May 08, 2014 10:21 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
gavesako wrote:Tim Ward's book is full of factual mistakes and inaccuracies which are only to be expected of someone who popped into the monastery for five minutes in order to write a book about it. You would be advised to consult other sources as well to gain a balanced perspective on what goes on at WPN.

I don't recall meeting Tim Ward while I was at Wat Pah Nanachat , but I am pretty sure that it is factually inaccurate to say that he only popped into the monastery for five minutes. It must have been at least five days. It seems that he ordained too.


Thank you Bhante for that clarification. :anjali: I also found it far–fetched that someone wrote a book based on five minutes of observation. I wonder how far he walked inside from the main gate. :)
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20572
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Thu May 08, 2014 4:20 pm

I don't think the ven. Gavesako meant literally "five minutes" :juggling: but just a relatively short timespan - his point of view might be too short to really get to know this place, people, traditions and ways of practice. I stayed as a pahkow for approx. 3 months ... it felt like 15 minutes. And I personally do not think I'd be able to give a balanced and just report let alone writing a book. Therefor I never really sayed anything like this: WPN is like this!
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Tue May 20, 2014 2:48 pm

Ajahn Brahm "The Art of disappearing", Page 93, Wisdom Publications

...So we should see the fault-finding mind as a problem, a snake, a danger to be avoided. It's common in the West to think that fault-finding is good. People sometimes write books with a fault-finding attitude in order to destroy authority, tradition, and institutions. Some years ago, someone visited Wat Pah Nanachat for three or four weeks and then wrote a book about his experiences. He really blasted the monastery and Ajahn Chah. He focused on everything that he thought was wrong, and consequently the book was completely unfair and unbalanced. People do this sort of thing because there's a certain pleasure in fault-finding. But be careful, because the danger far outweighs the pleasure. When you know this, you realize the fault-finding mind is a snake, and you can start to avoid it in the future.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Goofaholix » Tue May 20, 2014 7:34 pm

Sokehi wrote:I don't think the ven. Gavesako meant literally "five minutes" :juggling: but just a relatively short timespan - his point of view might be too short to really get to know this place, people, traditions and ways of practice. I stayed as a pahkow for approx. 3 months ... it felt like 15 minutes. And I personally do not think I'd be able to give a balanced and just report let alone writing a book. Therefor I never really sayed anything like this: WPN is like this!


It was 6 weeks, and having been there for 3 months like you I share your sentiment I couldn't write a book about it. I assume he was previously an author so went there with the idea he might write a book about it, it's easier to accumulate material when you're looking for it.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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