Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby KumarS » Fri May 23, 2014 1:05 pm

Zom wrote:I would not recommend becoming a monk before establishing a solid foundation for that in lay-life. Being a monk is not a fun, but a hard work and serious task. While disrobing is called by the Buddha "a death in the Discipline of the Noble Ones". Very few people stay in robes for all their life. Perhaps only 5% of those who's got ordination. All others "are dead".


You mean that it is better not to have ordained at all than to ordain and then disrobe?
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Fri May 23, 2014 5:14 pm

It's always good to ordain. It forces you to look deeper into your selfview, habits and accumulated patterns. If one disrobes - well... one has learnt something for sure, and years later maybe one wants to go back - this time better equipt with a clearer picturer of what one is encountering there. In the end one who leads the householders life is just trading one suffering for a new suffering. So don't expect bliss and easy living. It really is hard work, but benefitial - and if it's just for a week. :anjali:
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What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Sat May 24, 2014 12:58 pm

On Topic WPN:

I found two talks by ven. Ajahn Achalo he gave at Nanachat in 2013/2014 and they might be of interest for postulants :console:
"How I survived 18 years of monastic life - talk given to the monks at Wat Pah Nanachat (August 2013)"
"Sincere, Committed Practice , Wat Pah Nanachat (Jan 2014) "

http://www.peacebeyondsuffering.org/new-talks.html

or they can be found on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=032yw3-I9io
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby jameswang » Tue May 27, 2014 11:43 am

I personally think we shouldn't become monks with the intention of disrobing later. Seems to trivialize ordination. Anyway, I think WPN requires one to stay for quite some time before the abbot would consider one for ordination.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Tue May 27, 2014 2:51 pm

jameswang wrote:I personally think we shouldn't become monks with the intention of disrobing later. Seems to trivialize ordination. Anyway, I think WPN requires one to stay for quite some time before the abbot would consider one for ordination.


I don't think anyone suggested this - ordaining to disrobe later. But sometimes that happens. Things change :)
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby jameswang » Sat May 31, 2014 7:04 am

Sokehi wrote:I don't think anyone suggested this - ordaining to disrobe later. But sometimes that happens. Things change :)

OIC. Sorry. I misunderstood what you said. I agree with you.
I was thinking of people who do that temporary monkhood thing.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby walkart » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:40 am

Hello,
What is the most difficult while you train at WPN?
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:56 am

It depends where your attachments are. Food, physical comfort, being loved, the need to feel important, getting things your way... many of these things you need to give up either fully or partially. Basically you have to die. You are like a stick that has been in water for many years, you will need to dry up - to quote Ajahn Chah - and that is unpleasant sometimes.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby walkart » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:23 pm

Sokehi wrote:It depends where your attachments are. Food, physical comfort, being loved, the need to feel important, getting things your way... many of these things you need to give up either fully or partially. Basically you have to die. You are like a stick that has been in water for many years, you will need to dry up - to quote Ajahn Chah - and that is unpleasant sometimes.


I fear about physical pain that i could not tolerate.
If i don't mistake there is no cushions for meditation and pillow for the head. Sleeping and meditation on the hard floor is somethink that can be trained, but it must be difficult for the neck and head to sleep without any pillow or somethink to put under your head. What you can say about physical difficulties?

Thank you for information!
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:19 pm

walkart wrote:
I fear about physical pain that i could not tolerate.
If i don't mistake there is no cushions for meditation and pillow for the head. Sleeping and meditation on the hard floor is somethink that can be trained, but it must be difficult for the neck and head to sleep without any pillow or somethink to put under your head. What you can say about physical difficulties?

Thank you for information!


My experience from Nanachat is 12 years old and I stayed for around 3 months as an Pahkow. So keep this in mind, my information is quite old as is my experience, things might have changed. Plus I guess any information given by anyone who stayed as short as I did is pretty much incomplete. :)

But I'm happy to share what I have to tell you from my time back then:

- I didn't have a pillow but I used my backpack to lift my head a bit of the ground
- we were allowed to use meditation cushions. I remember sitting at around 5 pm at the outer sala and get some cushions out of a cupboard for the others. But I learned there to be able to sit without a cushion. Today I sometimes use a cushion, sometimes I don't. During Dhamma talks or informal gatherings we didn't use cushions but just squatted down on the floor. After a while I got used to it and it isn't that bad.
- when I arrived there it was december so at night time it was quite cold. the worst of physical hardships I had to endure there was to be cold all night. Some Kutis are quite windy so to speak. I was granted a piece of styrofoam or something from a friendly samanera, this I did put under my hips to keep them a bit more protected from the cold breeze

Everything else seemed to be just fine and I'm not critical about the hardships at all. There is a lesson to be found in such things :)

I hope that helps a bit. If in doubt it might be a good idea to write a letter to the current guest monk of WPN to get clarification on the things you are the most interested in. Mettacittena.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby walkart » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:05 pm

Thank you very much for sharing !
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:12 pm

walkart wrote:Thank you very much for sharing !


You are welcome friend I wish you all the best. Stay strong :heart:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:04 am

I was there for a while over thirty years ago.

  1. The poisonous snakes, scorpions, and centipedes are not really a problem — they help to keep you mindful. Use a flash light when walking in the dark. Don't enter an enclosed space like a toilet unmindfully.
  2. The physical work and long walks are not a problem for young men — it is a healthy life-style, but if you have health issues or are over thirty-five it might be a problem.
  3. It can be cold in the Winter months (about 10°C) as the huts are raised off the ground and are well ventilated.
  4. The hardest part is probably staying up all night on full moon and new moon nights.
  5. Eating only once a day can be tough, especially when doing a lot of physical labour, but the diet of mostly sticky rice is not a problem — the food was adequate while I was there. I don't suppose it's any worse now.
  6. Walking for alms bare-foot on stony paths takes some getting accustomed to.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Italy230 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:41 pm

What do people mean when they say you only learn vinaya at wat nanachat

I would like to hear criticisms of nanachat tradition so i can understand it better. Any welcome
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:49 pm

Italy230 wrote:What do people mean when they say you only learn vinaya at wat nanachat

I would like to hear criticisms of nanachat tradition so i can understand it better. Any welcome


Do you mean that people say:
1) you can learn the Vinaya only at Nanachat and nowhere else, or
2) the only thing one can learn at Nanachat is Vinaya?

In either case both I think is wrong and over simplification. Plus I don't think that there is a "Nanachat" tradition per se. It is a branch monastery of Wat Pah Pong and part of this tradition, the "Ajahn Chah Lineage". So to learn about this tradition - seeing you come from Italy - it might be the best to go and have a look what Wat Santacittarama (http://santacittarama.altervista.org/welcome.htm). No need to travel to Thailand or to waste time in the Internet ;)

The best way to learn about this place is to visit it. I don't think one really knows what Wat Pah Nanachat is all about by staying there for a couple of days, months or maybe even years though. :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Italy230 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:33 pm

Sokehi wrote:
Italy230 wrote:What do people mean when they say you only learn vinaya at wat nanachat

I would like to hear criticisms of nanachat tradition so i can understand it better. Any welcome


Do you mean that people say:
1) you can learn the Vin
aya only at Nanachat and nowhere else, or
2) the only thing one can learn at Nanachat is Vinaya?

In either case both I think is wrong and over simplification. Plus I don't think that there is a "Nanachat" tradition per se. It is a branch monastery of Wat Pah Pong and part of this tradition, the "Ajahn Chah Lineage". So to learn about this tradition - seeing you come from Italy - it might be the best to go and have a look what Wat Santacittarama (http://santacittarama.altervista.org/welcome.htm). No need to travel to Thailand or to waste time in the Internet ;)

The best way to learn about this place is to visit it. I don't think one really knows what Wat Pah Nanachat is all about by staying there for a couple of days, months or maybe even years though. :anjali:


I hope too

Yes i mean people say the only thing learned is vinaya and it is all work and not much traditional meditation. I just read old post of monk dhammanado who said they do not teach much dhamma
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sokehi » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:31 pm

That makes only sense if you compare it with other places and/or traditions. You might think there is a lot of work, and in other places too little. Or in other places too much dhamma study, or there not enough. As Ajahn Chah said: If you need a piece of rope longer than this, it is too short. If you need a piece of rope shorter than this, it's too long.

Still I agree that communal work is encouraged at Wat Pah Pong Monasteries so I have heard and in the case of Nanachat experienced myself. If you are looking for a monastery where you can learn a certain Meditation style this might be "too little meditation". But again as Ajahn Chah pointed out: "If you have time to breathe you have time to meditate". Ideally meditation never stops. Meditation of Metta and Anapanasati using "Bud-dho" as a meditation object/mantra is encouraged. As well as walking meditation. If you clean spitoons, toilets, your dwelling place or your body - that is where you can meditate and develop mindfulness. There are many opportunities for communal meditation as happens every morning for example. If you are looking for a lot of study and formal meditation training other places might be more suitable for you.

But again don't trust my words or those of others, it's for you to see. Santacittarama could be a place to start and have a look what it feels like to you. If the rope is too long or too short or just good enough. :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Italy230 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:46 am

Ok and i read that you must do 5 rains retreats with these teachers. Does this mean 5 years or 5 rain retreats because if rains it is just over 4 years yes?
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:11 am

It seems to be a general expectation that monks will spend five rains with their preceptor, after which they are free to explore other places. Monks count their ordination time by the number of rains retreats. This will usually mean between 4 and a bit to five years, since the rains retreat is a 3 month period around July-October.

:anjali:
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Mr Man » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:13 am

mikenz66 wrote:It seems to be a general expectation that monks will spend five rains with their preceptor, after which they are free to explore other places. Monks count their ordination time by the number of rains retreats. This will usually mean between 4 and a bit to five years, since the rains retreat is a 3 month period around July-October.


This is more five vassa under the close guidance of the community rather than literally "with their preceptor".
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