Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a part

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
SarathW
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Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a part

Post by SarathW »

Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a particular tradition?

This is just a hypothetical question raised based on various issues due to 227 Vinaya rules.
Is it possible to take 9 precepts (handling money is taken away) without a preceptor or teacher and become a monk myself?
This question also raised based on that modern monks do not follow the 227 Vinaya rules according to what they promised when they ordained.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Mkoll
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by Mkoll »

Dear Sarath,

I don't think so because the definition of monk is "a man who is a member of a brotherhood living in a monastery and devoted to a discipline prescribed by his order." That discipline must necessarily be from some tradition or another.

You could become a homeless beggar who is a disciple of Gotama the Buddha. I wouldn't wear robes though. :tongue:

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Ben
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by Ben »

Hypothetically, you could follow the eight precepts scrupulously and devote much of your time to Dhamma practice and study.
Kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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jungblood
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by jungblood »

I need a teacher's support to make progress in understanding the Dhamma.... and that's just a lay practitioner... if I tried to go solo, and full-time, I expect things would get pretty wacky! But then that's just me - I've got a LOT of 'ancient twisted karma' swilling around in my little head... :juggling:

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SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by SarathW »

Thanks Ben
Don’t you think celibacy is a very important aspect to be in the path?
Sometimes I wonder why you become a monk.
Only think I can think is, that you have the desire to devote your life to practice and teaching Dhamma.
So you can do this without belong to a particular tradition.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Ben
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by Ben »

SarathW wrote:Thanks Ben
Don’t you think celibacy is a very important aspect to be in the path?
Sometimes I wonder why you become a monk.
Only think I can think is, that you have the desire to devote your life to practice and teaching Dhamma.
So you can do this without belong to a particular tradition.
:)
Hi Sarath,
If you are following the eight precepts you will be celibate. If you are already in a committed relationship - you can still make great progress without celibacy.
I know of one yogi who lives the life of a monk in Cambodia without belonging to a particular tradition but I think that particular path, without close association of kalayanamittas, is very hard if not impossible for many people. Hence my recommendation to keep things simple. One can live in the world as a layperson and have a life dedicated to the Dhamma.
Kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Goofaholix
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by Goofaholix »

SarathW wrote:Thanks Ben
Don’t you think celibacy is a very important aspect to be in the path?
Not having a wife and children frees up a lot of time and worry, just as not having a job frees up a lot of time and worry. If this time is then dedicated to practice then that's going to help. I wouldn't say celibacy is very important though, it's a choice.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by SarathW »

I don’t think that you can become an Arahant unless you a celibate!
I assumed here in this OP that the objective of becoming a monk is to attain Arahantship.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Ben
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by Ben »

SarathW wrote:I don’t think that you can become an Arahant unless you a celibate!
I assumed here in this OP that the objective of becoming a monk is to attain Arahantship.
:)
If you have the opportunity to become a monk: take it.
If you don't have that opportunity but are seeking to get more serious about your practice: adopt the eight precepts if you are single as it will entail celibacy. If on the other hand you have a wife and family commitments - you can still make great progress by following the five precepts. I suggest you concern yourself with the requirements for arahant ship when it gets closer. Remember that while sila is foundational to any progress on the path, it's not the entirety of the path. Anyway, I am sure I am telling you things you already know.
Kind regards,
Ben.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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mikenz66
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi SarathW,

If you don't want to be part of a particular monastery, you might contact Ven Indrajala on DharmaWheel, who seems to have ordained somewhat independently, and ask him for some advice. He ordained early last year: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=12499

:anjali:
Mike
SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by SarathW »

Thanks Mike
I missed that thread. :)
:)
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Sati1
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by Sati1 »

Ben wrote:If on the other hand you have a wife and family commitments - you can still make great progress by following the five precepts. I suggest you concern yourself with the requirements for arahant ship when it gets closer.
Dear Ben,

Do you think that one can significantly increase chances of arahantship in future lives while being married, following the five precepts and studying and meditating diligently? Would a married layperson be able to become a stream enterer or a once- or non-returner?

Thank you.
Sati1

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.30, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)
SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by SarathW »

Hi Sati
Married lay person can become a stream enterer and a once returner.
:)
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by Cittasanto »

If Becoming a mendicant, just find a teacher you trust to teach you the necessary rules....
You are reliant on a teacher for the first five years as a Bhikkhu and then can go your own way. But in the mean time living strictly by the five precepts and gradually incorporating the eight precepts for daily observance is more than enough.
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SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Post by SarathW »

Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:
Thus, given the limited opportunities for institutional reform, the only course left open to those few men and women prepared to break the bonds of mainstream Buddhism in their determination to practice is to follow the example of the Buddha himself by engaging in what might be called personal or independent reform: to reject the general values of society, go off on their own, put up with society's disapproval and the hardships of living on the frontier, and search for whatever reliable meditation teachers may be living and practicing outside of the mainstream. If no such teachers exist, individuals intent on practice must strike out on their own, adhering as closely as they can to the teachings in the texts — to keep themselves from being led astray by their own defilements — and taking refuge in the example of the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha in a radical way.

In a sense, there is a sort of folk wisdom to this arrangement. Anyone who would take on the practice only when assured of comfortable material support, status, and praise — which the Buddha called the baits of the world — would probably not be up to the sacrifices and self-discipline the practice inherently entails.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 03#p277919
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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