What is schism?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
SarathW
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What is schism?

Postby SarathW » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:39 am

As for confrontational reforms introduced from the bottom up, these have never been sanctioned by the tradition, and Theravadin history has no record of their ever succeeding. The only such reform mentioned in the Canon was Devadatta's attempted schism, introduced as a reform to tighten up the disciplinary rules. The Canon treats his attempt in such strongly negative terms that its memory is still very much alive in the Theravada mind set, making the vast majority of Buddhists reluctant to take up with confrontational reforms no matter how reasonable they might seem. And with good reason: Anyone who has to fight to have his/her ideas accepted inevitably loses touch with the qualities of dispassion, self-effacement, unentanglement with others, contentment with little, and seclusion — qualities the Buddha set forth as the litmus test for gauging whether or not a proposed course of action, and the person proposing it, were in accordance with the Dhamma.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... namic.html
===============

Any examples from recent events?
:reading:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

culaavuso
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Re: What is schism?

Postby culaavuso » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:47 am

If you read the terms of service of the dharma wheel site , there is a prohibition against discussion of a particular recent topic. Google can tell you more about it.

One might also consider the expulsion of Ajahn Brahm from the Wat Pah Pong community to be a relevant recent event. See for Ajahn Brahm's take on the series of events.


SarathW
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Re: What is schism?

Postby SarathW » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:11 pm

Thanks.
Can we consider “Nikayas”,divisions such as Theravada, Mahayana etc.
as “Schism”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikaya_Buddhism

For example there are about 4 diffrent Nikayas in Sri Lanka.
Certain lower cast people are not ordained in some Nikayas.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

culaavuso
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Re: What is schism?

Postby culaavuso » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:48 am



SarathW
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Re: What is schism?

Postby SarathW » Wed May 07, 2014 3:29 am

David said in another link:

No tradition / lineage, I am not into schisms and also not a bhikkhu.) However, my philosophy is the same as some other Theravada Buddhists; "original Buddhism" :tongue: whatever that is. For me Suttanta, early teachings, as far down on the Shramana trunk / root as one can go, back to Dipankara or even Taṇhaṃkara, if possible.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=20570#p288018
========

Are there schisms in Western countries. (USA, UK, Europe etc)?
What is the possibility of new schisms in the west?
How can we stop it?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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waterchan
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Re: What is schism?

Postby waterchan » Wed May 07, 2014 3:44 am

quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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cooran
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Re: What is schism?

Postby cooran » Wed May 07, 2014 6:53 am

Hello all,

This might be of interest:

Schism in the Sangha - Buddhist Monastic Code II by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

http://info-buddhism.com/sangha_schism.html

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Dan74
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Re: What is schism?

Postby Dan74 » Wed May 07, 2014 9:54 am

_/|\_

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ArkA
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Re: What is schism?

Postby ArkA » Wed May 07, 2014 1:50 pm

I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction:

SarathW
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Re: What is schism?

Postby SarathW » Thu May 08, 2014 12:41 am

Venerable Thanissaro has mentioned that there is a consciousness outside the five aggregate.
Eg:
"Because none of the aggregates were involved in the experience of the deathless, and
yet there was still an awareness of that dimension"

http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writ ... 130123.pdf

=======================

It apperars there is a disagreement among monks about this matter.
When I had a discussion with a friend he pointed out:

The "consciousness without surface" mentioned in MN 49 is "viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ". The "consciousness" referenced there is thus "viññāṇa", the same word used in the five aggregates and the twelve links of dependent origination.

For an interesting discussion on this issue from another perspective, Bhikkhu Sujato has written a series of blog posts:

Nibbana is not viññāṇa. Really, it just isn’t.
http://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/ ... e2%80%99t/

Nibbana is still not Viññāṇa
http://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/ ... e1%b9%87a/

Nibbana remains not Viññāṇa
http://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/05/21/ ... t-vinnana/

Bhikkhu Sujato's second posting also makes a statement about what Bhikkhu Bodhi's perspective is:
Bhikkhu Sujato wrote:Given all these uncertainties, it is not possible to establish one definitive interpretation of the phrase. I have suggested that it is a reference to the formless attainment of infinite consciousness, which is surely the most obvious reading (since it actually says ‘infinite consciousness’!). Bhikkhu Bodhi prefers to read it as a reference to the arahant’s meditative experience of Nibbana; while this is not an unproblematic reading, it is certainly defensible.

===============================
There is also a current thread in this regard:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20626
================================

Qestion:
Has Ven. Thanissrao commit a schism or has pave the way to schism.?
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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ArkA
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Re: What is schism?

Postby ArkA » Thu May 08, 2014 1:26 am

I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction:

SarathW
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is schism?

Postby SarathW » Fri May 09, 2014 4:07 am

"class system, as in Sri Lanka"

Actually it is the cast system.
This is one reason I do not have much faith in Sri Lankan monks.
They break the very basic rules of Buddha's teaching - conceit. (Mana)

Is this a violation of Vinaya?
======
ps: By the way this is the profile of our family cast, if you like to know what "cast" means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appuhamy
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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ArkA
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Re: What is schism?

Postby ArkA » Fri May 09, 2014 2:32 pm

I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction:

SarathW
Posts: 8014
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is schism?

Postby SarathW » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:11 am

It appears schism can be done only by Buddhist monks.
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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gavesako
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Re: What is schism?

Postby gavesako » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:43 am

Devadatta stone drawing.jpg
Devadatta stone drawing.jpg (86.52 KiB) Viewed 873 times
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

SarathW
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Re: What is schism?

Postby SarathW » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:26 pm

In a schism who is in the wrong side?
:thinking:

History of Schism please read the link below:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=25003#p359916
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”


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