Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Greetings all,

Did the Buddha sanction temporary ordination? If He did not, what purpose does it serve?

it's a cultural thing

jcsuperstar,

That's what I kinda figured. Thanks.

All conditioned things are temporary.

he didn't prohibit it either! nor would it be a new thing, or completely cultural. there is an origin story to the rule about the maximum number of times someone can ordain where the man ordained 6 times, and disrobed then ordained again on the seventh they initially refused until they went to the Buddha to see what to do, and he set the rule of no more than seven ordinations, the common practice will be cultural, but not the taking of ordination for a temporary period of time whether planned, or not.

Manapa,

Thanks! Despite my own thought that it was a cultural thing, you answered my question and corrected me.

Manapa wrote:he didn't prohibit it either! nor would it be a new thing, or completely cultural. there is an origin story to the rule about the maximum number of times someone can ordain where the man ordained 6 times, and disrobed then ordained again on the seventh they initially refused until they went to the Buddha to see what to do, and he set the rule of no more than seven ordinations, the common practice will be cultural, but not the taking of ordination for a temporary period of time whether planned, or not.

Excuse me, but this is another case of apples and oranges...with reference to temporary ordination this is totally unrelated...

appicchato wrote:

Manapa wrote:he didn't prohibit it either! nor would it be a new thing, or completely cultural. there is an origin story to the rule about the maximum number of times someone can ordain where the man ordained 6 times, and disrobed then ordained again on the seventh they initially refused until they went to the Buddha to see what to do, and he set the rule of no more than seven ordinations, the common practice will be cultural, but not the taking of ordination for a temporary period of time whether planned, or not.

Excuse me, but this is another case of apples and oranges...with reference to temporary ordination this is totally unrelated...

I have underlined the main points.
the story was to show that there is evidence of periods when someone could ordain and disrobe without being banned from ordaining in the future.
classing temporary ordination as only one certain cultural thing seams weak, so does classing everyone who disrobes as temporarily ordained.
I know some people and if I remember Ajahn Sumedho has also expressed this was his initial intention, that they wanted to ordain for a certain period of time then disrobe, and I know one former monk who was satisfied with the progress they had made, and felt the time was right to go back to lay life, never setting a time frame.

This would neither be cultural or ordaining only to disrobe because of disliking the life of a monastic. If the intention was to temporarily ordain then at the disrobing the circle is completed to cause it to be temporary ordination.

appicchato wrote:Context, semantics, and probably a few other things thrown in as well...the gist of the OP's idea was (I think) that of ordaining for only a specific amount of time, calculated before ordaining...just offering one person's alternative view...it's all good...

temporary ordination is temporary ordination why narrow it to one aspect, when no specifics are identifiable.

although I do agree the op was probably referring to the cultural aspect, it seamed probable to me that there was an unawareness of the wider scope of it which isn't cultural, but a personal option that is possible, and something that happens, possibly being more noticeable with westerners, than the Eastern counterparts.

There are many possibilities:

• Someone ordains with the intention to remain for life, but his intention changes after a short time or a long time, and so he disrobes. Then he changes his mind and ordains again. There is no limit to the number of times someone can be ordained. As long as he did not commit an offence of defeat, and is still eligible for ordination due to being free from debt, etc., he can ordain again.
• Someone ordains with the intention to disrobe after a fixed time limit, whether one day, one week, or one year. While a monk, his intention changes, and he decides to stay a little longer. Time goes by, and he eventually stays for life.
• Someone ordains without any notion of how long he will remain, but just on a trial basis: as long as he is content with the monk's life he remains.

Some say that temporary ordination is worthless, and so discourage a potential candidate by saying, “If you cannot remain a monk for life, it is better not to ordain. If you disrobe after a few years it will be harder to get a wife, job, etc.” Such words are the unwholesome obstructive kamma of discouraging the wholesome deed of renunciation. Who knows what someone can achieve? Though their resolve may be weak, later they may realise the benefits of the monk's life and the disadvantages of household life, and their resolve will strengthen.

The Burmese idea behind temporary ordination is generally this: “I have family commitments and am deeply immersed in samsāra. Although I cannot renounce for the entire life, I can manage for one week or one month. This wholesome deed of renunciation leads to the accumulation of potential (pāramī). If my circumstances permit in the future, I will ordain again, or perhaps ordain permanently.” Then if that man's wife wants a divorce, or if she dies, or when the children are grown up, it is much easier for him to become a monk since he has already friends in the Sangha and among faithful lay supporters who would support his ordination.

The Buddha knew beforehand what Devadatta would do, so why did he sanction his ordination? If he knew that Devadatta would create a schism in the Sangha, which only a bhikkhu can do, thus ensuring his rebirth in hell after death, why did he permit Devadatta to go forth? The Buddha realised that by practising as a monk for some years, gaining jhānas and psychic powers, that Devadatta would accumulate sufficient perfections to set a limit to his suffering in samsāra.

I understand that Temporary Ordination is popular in Burma, Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia, but this practice is not popular in Sri Lanka. Is it correct ?

Suan

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: The Burmese idea behind temporary ordination is generally this: “I have family commitments and am deeply immersed in samsāra. Although I cannot renounce for the entire life, I can manage for one week or one month. This wholesome deed of renunciation leads to the accumulation of potential (pāramī). If my circumstances permit in the future, I will ordain again, or perhaps ordain permanently.” Then if that man's wife wants a divorce, or if she dies, or when the children are grown up, it is much easier for him to become a monk since he has already friends in the Sangha and among faithful lay supporters who would support his ordination.

This is a very interesting thought. Ordination is something that I have never truly thought feasible given my responsibilities at this time. But after looking at this I'm seeing new possibilities. So a few thoughts pop up... Is this worth it? Knowing that you will return to lay life after a set amount of time.

MJH wrote:Is this worth it?

I believe that's a question only you can answer...

MJH wrote:

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: The Burmese idea behind temporary ordination is generally this: “I have family commitments and am deeply immersed in samsāra. Although I cannot renounce for the entire life, I can manage for one week or one month. This wholesome deed of renunciation leads to the accumulation of potential (pāramī). If my circumstances permit in the future, I will ordain again, or perhaps ordain permanently.” Then if that man's wife wants a divorce, or if she dies, or when the children are grown up, it is much easier for him to become a monk since he has already friends in the Sangha and among faithful lay supporters who would support his ordination.

This is a very interesting thought. Ordination is something that I have never truly thought feasible given my responsibilities at this time. But after looking at this I'm seeing new possibilities. So a few thoughts pop up... Is this worth it? Knowing that you will return to lay life after a set amount of time.

Have you been to any centers or done any retreats yet? I would think that such things would be in order first. Also remember there are other options like longer retreats or a residency.

If the opportunity came up for me (time off, ability to travel) I wouldn't hesitate.

-M