Monk uses vehicle?

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Monk uses vehicle?

Postby whynotme » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:02 am

Dear all,

If I remember correctly, there is a rule doesn't allow monks to use vehicles. If it is true, then how could monks travel great distance?

Regards.
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby Bodhisurfer » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:06 am

whynotme wrote:Dear all,

If I remember correctly, there is a rule doesn't allow monks to use vehicles. If it is true, then how could monks travel great distance?

Regards.


I dont know that there is such a rule in the Vinaya, perhaps one of the monks on here would know more.
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby plwk » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:21 am

Here's one answer:
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/bud ... qmonks.htm
FAQ. 12: Are monks allowed to own and/or drive vehicles? Is this allowed by the Vinaya? If it does not go against the Vinaya, would it still be socially acceptable, given the monk's spiritual status in society?
A: There is a specific rule against bhikkhus owning vehicles.
Obviously, 'motor vehicles' were not available in the Buddha's time and most travel would have been on foot. However, there was the case:
...when the group-of-six bhikkhus went in a vehicle yoked with cows and bulls, they were criticized by the lay people. The Buddha then established a fault of Wrong-doing for a bhikkhu to travel in a vehicle; later illness was exempted from this guideline...
Travelling in a vehicle in the Buddha's time was an extravagance.
A strict application of this training in Thailand is not allowing bhikkhus to drive or own vehicles, and (officially) not to ride on motorcycles.
Bhikkhus were allowed to use ferry boats, etc. (In Thailand, bhikkhus from riverside monasteries will go on alms round by boat.)


I found these too... 1 2 3
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:55 am

Buddhist Monastic Discipline
There are rules forbidding a bhikkhu from riding in a vehicle unless he is ill, in which case he may ride in a handcart or a cart yoked with a bull. In modern times, ill is interpreted here as meaning too weak to reach one's destination on foot in the time available, and the allowance for a cart yoked with a bull is extended to cover motorized vehicles such as automobiles, airplanes, and trucks, but not to motorcycles or bicycles, as the riding position in the latter cases is more like riding on an animal's back. There is also a rule allowing a bhikkhu to ride in a sedan-chair, although the origin story to that rule suggests that the allowance is intended specifically for a bhikkhu too ill to ride in a vehicle. In discussing these rules, the Commentary states that the sedan-chair may be carried by women or men, and the vehicle may be driven by a woman or a man (although see the discussion under Pc 67 in BMC1). Even then, though, the Commentary does not extend permission for the bhikkhu to drive the vehicle himself. Thus it is improper for a bhikkhu to drive a motorized vehicle of any sort.
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby daverupa » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:12 pm

Is there a difference if the vehicle is driven solely within the sima boundary?
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby cooran » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:24 pm

Hello Bhante, all,

what about monks who use tractors and slashers solely on monastery land to make the area safe against bushfires and against deadly snakes?

with metta and respect,
Chris
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:26 pm

I'm extremely grateful that Bhikkus such as Ven Pesala use modern interpretations of such rules, otherwise I would never have encountered the Dhamma...

:anjali:
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby daverupa » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:35 pm

cooran wrote:Hello Bhante, all,

what about monks who use tractors and slashers solely on monastery land to make the area safe against bushfires and against deadly snakes?

with metta and respect,
Chris


That's actually a similar scenario to the one I had in mind. :smile:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby Ytrog » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:37 pm

Eh, they aren't allowed to damage plants, so I can't imagine that they go on tractors and slashers to cut these out.
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:45 am

I am no Vinaya expert, so I just quoted Ajahn Thanissaro on this. My opinion is that driving motorised vehicles is, in general, unsuitable for monks, and being within the Sima or not would have nothing to do with it. However, the Vinaya rule is, I believe, more to do with compassion for the animals used to pull vehicles, so driving or riding an animal is unsuitable. That principle doesn't apply to driving a motorised vehicle.

While in Chithurst, as not everyone had a driving license and there were only a few overworked Anagarikas, I drove a tractor mostly to haul firewood back from the forest. I also drove a car sometimes when staying in other monasteries, for example, when the Sangha were invited from London to Liverpool for a Kathina ceremony. It was cheaper and more feasible to hire a car for the weekend than to pay for four return train tickets to travel up on Saturday and back on a Sunday.

I haven't updated my old format driver's license, and haven't driven for many years. I have no plans to do so in the future. However, if circumstances make it impractical not to drive, I don't see it as a big issue. Each case should be considered on its merits.

The general advice is to follow the standard of the community in which one lives, and not to criticise until one has walked a 1,000 miles in another person's shoes.
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby Ben » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:51 am

Thank you Bhante for your clarification.
kind regards

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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby cooran » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:55 am

Dear Bhante,

Thanks for the information. The two monks at Bodhi Tree forest Monastery near Lismore use a tractor and slasher to cut the grass. Most lay people don’t have the knowledge/skills to do this nowadays, and those that do live too far away.

With metta and respect,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby Ben » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:00 am

cooran wrote:Dear Bhante,

Thanks for the information. The two monks at Bodhi Tree forest Monastery near Lismore use a tractor and slasher to cut the grass. Most lay people don’t have the knowledge/skills to do this nowadays, and those that do live too far away.

With metta and respect,
Chris


And very expensive to get a contractor to do it, as well!
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
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Re: Monk uses vehicle?

Postby buddhis8 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:33 am

Yes, this rule seems to apply more in the Theravada tradition as monks are allowed to drive here in Taiwan. At Amaravati monastery in the UK the monks usually have a lay or Anagarika chauffeur them.
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