Facebook & Suffering

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No_Mind
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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby No_Mind » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:46 am

tiltbillings wrote:Your choice to worry about what others think of you. And just because you have had crappy experiences on FB that does not mean it would be so for others.


"Passive following triggers invidious emotions, with users mainly envying happiness of others, the way others spend their vacations and socialize," as this article succinctly puts it.

I am sure that my crappy experience does not mean everyone will have a crappy experience. But a study showed I am not alone and more importantly it showed that more one used FB sadder one became. The data in the study speaks for itself.

Monday morning and work beckons. Bye Mr Tiltbillings.

:anjali:
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

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tiltbillings
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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:50 am

No_Mind wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Your choice to worry about what others think of you. And just because you have had crappy experiences on FB that does not mean it would be so for others.


"Passive following triggers invidious emotions, with users mainly envying happiness of others, the way others spend their vacations and socialize," as this article succinctly puts it.

I am sure that my crappy experience does not mean everyone will have a crappy experience. But a study showed I am not alone and more importantly it showed that more one used FB sadder one became. The data in the study speaks for itself.

Monday morning and work beckons. Bye Mr Tiltbillings.
It looks to be that your sadness is the result of your choices.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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No_Mind
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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby No_Mind » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:52 am

Mkoll wrote:Well, I hope you've changed your friendships around since then. Anyone who would say such a mean and humiliating thing in public and not apologize about it (which I'm assuming he didn't do) is not a nice person. I suggest you stay away from those folks.


No he did not apologize and I did not ask since he had evidently planned for that moment for 3 decades!!

I cannot change the other 149 friends but I also cannot face those from my school days. Those friends number about 18 in all. This guy ensured I cannot go to 25 year high school reunion next year.

I feel it is a "digital time suck" to spend time watching other people brag - even if that be 45 minutes a week.

:anjali:
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

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tiltbillings
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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:55 am

No_Mind wrote:
Mkoll wrote:Well, I hope you've changed your friendships around since then. Anyone who would say such a mean and humiliating thing in public and not apologize about it (which I'm assuming he didn't do) is not a nice person. I suggest you stay away from those folks.


No he did not apologize and I did not ask since he had evidently planned for that moment for well over 3 decades!!

I cannot change the other 149 friends but I also cannot face those from my school days. Those friends number about 18 in all. This guy ensured I cannot go to 25 year high school reunion next year.

I feel it is a "digital time suck" to spend time watching other people brag - even if that be 45 minutes a week.

:anjali:
All this energy and time over this, and you look no closer resolution now than you were when it all happened. Well, good luck with this.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:29 am

waterchan wrote: How about how violent video games are the cause of aggression and depression in today's youth?


Endless hours of violent computer games probably don't help anyone's state of mind.
"I ride tandem with the random, Things don't run the way I planned them, In the humdrum."
Peter Gabriel lyric

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Facebook, The Economy, and Empathy

Postby dhp273 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:21 pm

I see my friends spending endless kalpas :) on Facebook, unaware of the trap and addiction that it is. And I see them being taken advantage of by advertising and an economy that exploits and leaves them saddled with debt. I try to talk with them about these things but they say I am being negative, or they agree yet keep doing what they are doing. All I see is the suffering that will result. It gives me such a deep sadness. In this country if you do not use use Facebook or want to participate in the economy you are ostracized, you are an outcast. You are most certainly not the Buddha or the Jesus they pretend to worship. So with the sadness I am also more alone.

I do not know how to deal with my strong empathy of their quiet suffering. To know how free of suffering a person can be has suddenly put an even heavier load on my shoulders. It is depressing me and creating doubt. I do not know how to deal with it all.

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Re: Facebook, The Economy, and Empathy

Postby LXNDR » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:35 pm

dhp273 wrote:you are ostracized, you are an outcast. So with the sadness I am also more alone.


that's a blessing

save yourself and thousands around you will be saved (the idea is not mine)

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Re: Facebook, The Economy, and Empathy

Postby dhp273 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:00 pm

dhp273 wrote:I see my friends spending endless kalpas :) on Facebook, unaware of the trap and addiction that it is. And I see them being taken advantage of by advertising and an economy that exploits and leaves them saddled with debt. I try to talk with them about these things but they say I am being negative, or they agree yet keep doing what they are doing. All I see is the suffering that will result. It gives me such a deep sadness. In this country if you do not use use Facebook or want to participate in the economy you are ostracized, you are an outcast. You are most certainly not the Buddha or the Jesus they pretend to worship. So with the sadness I am also more alone.

I do not know how to deal with my strong empathy of their quiet suffering. To know how free of suffering a person can be has suddenly put an even heavier load on my shoulders. It is depressing me and creating doubt. I do not know how to deal with it all.


Why, if I put a post in one section it appears by itself in another? No one talked to me about it. I wanted this in Modern Theravada, not in wellness.

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Re: Facebook, The Economy, and Empathy

Postby dhp273 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:03 pm

LXNDR wrote:
dhp273 wrote:you are ostracized, you are an outcast. So with the sadness I am also more alone.


that's a blessing

save yourself and thousands around you will be saved (the idea is not mine)


My mind understands that but my body does not.

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Re: Facebook, The Economy, and Empathy

Postby culaavuso » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:32 pm

dhp273 wrote:I do not know how to deal with my strong empathy of their quiet suffering. To know how free of suffering a person can be has suddenly put an even heavier load on my shoulders. It is depressing me and creating doubt. I do not know how to deal with it all.


If knowing how free of suffering a person can be is functioning as a cause of suffering, perhaps it's best to put that knowledge aside and simply work towards freedom from suffering.

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Re: Facebook, The Economy, and Empathy

Postby dhp273 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:27 pm

culaavuso wrote:
dhp273 wrote:I do not know how to deal with my strong empathy of their quiet suffering. To know how free of suffering a person can be has suddenly put an even heavier load on my shoulders. It is depressing me and creating doubt. I do not know how to deal with it all.


If knowing how free of suffering a person can be is functioning as a cause of suffering, perhaps it's best to put that knowledge aside and simply work towards freedom from suffering.


Yes, that is the obvious action, but what I am saying is that I am stuck there.

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Re: Facebook, The Economy, and Empathy

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:13 pm

dhp273 wrote:
culaavuso wrote:
dhp273 wrote:I do not know how to deal with my strong empathy of their quiet suffering. To know how free of suffering a person can be has suddenly put an even heavier load on my shoulders. It is depressing me and creating doubt. I do not know how to deal with it all.


If knowing how free of suffering a person can be is functioning as a cause of suffering, perhaps it's best to put that knowledge aside and simply work towards freedom from suffering.


Yes, that is the obvious action, but what I am saying is that I am stuck there.
Only because you think you are.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Facebook, The Economy, and Empathy

Postby dhp273 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:15 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
dhp273 wrote:
Yes, that is the obvious action, but what I am saying is that I am stuck there.


Only because you think you are.


Yes, uhm, thought is the problem. Again, that is obvious. (It feels like I came here saying "I am broke and do not know how to pay my rent" and do not know what to do and your advice is "You need more money".)

The Buddha gave advice regarding hindrances. If you have never been here please be careful what you say. This is not new to me, this is not a beginners issue.

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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby daverupa » Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:19 pm

Generate compassion and goodwill instead of empathy; you may find that 'empathy' is in fact compassion + judgment.

Also, engage with SN 47.19.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:10 pm

"'I shall protect myself,' in that way the foundations of mindfulness should be practiced. 'I shall protect others,' in that way the foundations of mindfulness should be practiced. Protecting oneself one protects others; protecting others one protects oneself. And how does one, in protecting oneself, protect others? By the repeated and frequent practice of meditation. And how does one, in protecting others, protect oneself? By patience and forbearance, by a non-violent and harmless life, by compassion and loving kindness." -- SN 52,8

Before all else, you will need to learn to protect yourself, which mean being compassionate, forgiving and loving of yourself.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby Mkoll » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:41 pm

daverupa wrote:Generate compassion and goodwill instead of empathy; you may find that 'empathy' is in fact compassion + judgment.

Also, engage with SN 47.19.

Some equanimity wouldn't hurt either I think.
Peace,
James

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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby dhp273 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:26 pm

daverupa wrote:Generate compassion and goodwill instead of empathy; you may find that 'empathy' is in fact compassion + judgment.

Also, engage with SN 47.19.


SN 47.19 is not a good metaphor in this case. It implies that the other person is actually working on escaping samsara. Instead of my friends being fellow acrobats, they are sitting in dark alleys shooting up heroin.

I guess it just comes down to letting them go, being truthful to them and myself.

This reading gets to the point:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/bps-essay_12.html

For when, with eyes unhindered by emotively tinged blinkers, we turn to contemplate the wide expanse of the world, we find ourselves gazing into a mass of suffering that is vertiginous in its volume and ghastly in its intensity. The guarantor of our complacency is the dumb thoughtless glee with which we acquiesce in our daily ration of sensual excitation and ego-enhancing kudos. Let us raise our heads a little higher and cast our eyes about, and we behold a world steeped in pain where the ills inherent in the normal life-cycle are compounded still more by the harshness of nature, the grim irony of accident, and the cruelty of human beings.

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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby Sam Vara » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:02 pm

dhp273 wrote:SN 47.19 is not a good metaphor in this case. It implies that the other person is actually working on escaping samsara. Instead of my friends being fellow acrobats, they are sitting in dark alleys shooting up heroin.



Here's another way of seeing it. Maybe those people sitting in dark alleys shooting up heroin are fellow acrobats. They don't use the term "samsara", but they are trying to escape from the suffering they experience in a way that seems to make sense to them.

They haven't learned that heroin is an unskillful way of doing it, that's all...

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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby dhp273 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:20 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
dhp273 wrote:SN 47.19 is not a good metaphor in this case. It implies that the other person is actually working on escaping samsara. Instead of my friends being fellow acrobats, they are sitting in dark alleys shooting up heroin.



Here's another way of seeing it. Maybe those people sitting in dark alleys shooting up heroin are fellow acrobats. They don't use the term "samsara", but they are trying to escape from the suffering they experience in a way that seems to make sense to them.

They haven't learned that heroin is an unskillful way of doing it, that's all...


Have you ever seen someone killing themselves in front of you? Would you really say "Of they are just looking for happiness wrongly, that's all..." and walk away?

The Burning House parable comes to mind, the Buddha tricks people from mundane enjoyments, like Facebook, to show them the perfect enjoyment of enlightenment. I am just frustrated that I cannot show them this yet and I need to let go of it.

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/lotus1.html

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Re: Facebook & Suffering

Postby daverupa » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:44 pm

dhp273 wrote:Instead of my friends being fellow acrobats, they are sitting in dark alleys shooting up heroin.


As I said,

daverupa wrote:You may find that 'empathy' is in fact compassion + judgment.


See the judgment as a fetter, I suggest, and root it out by finding out how it arises for you & what its nutriments are in your case.

---

The parable of the burning house isn't Canonical, coming instead from the Lotus Sutra, which is adhamma.

The Buddha seems instead to have taught in this way:

MN 107 wrote:"Even so, brahman, nibbana does exist, the way leading to nibbana exists and I exist as adviser. But some of my disciples, on being exhorted and instructed thus by me attain the unchanging goal — nibbana, some do not attain it. What can I, brahman, do in this matter? A shower of the way, brahman, is a Tathagata."
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]


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