Why one meal a day?

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Zom
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by Zom »

Or was this precept in response to the prevalence of Guru's lounging on extravagant 'decked out' seats and beds during that period? Or an ascetic practice of taking away extreme comfort?
Probably yes. The idea is to decrease extreme comfort. And another extreme (as I see it) would be sleeping on a plain floor with no bedding, or even worse than that - like sleeping on a mat with spikes or smth like that.
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Pondera
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by Pondera »

I tried to avoid lofty, comfortable beds. It becomes nearly impossible to sleep well when you do not have a pillow, or you have a pillow made of concrete (for all of the Pearl Jam fans out there). In the absence of a real pillow I have found two ways to make a one out of my arms. Neither way works very well. In both cases, I am unable to sleep more than four hours without waking up. And when I wake up my hips are sore, as are my neck and shoulders. So I don't do it. I sleep on a lofty bed made of baby porcupine dander. Quite expensive, that stuff.

Anyhow. This is the first arm pillow. It's simple. You stretch your right arm out so that your head rests on your shoulder when you lay on your right side. I wake up from this posture with a sore neck and a sore shoulder.

The second arm pillow is a bit more crafty. You assume the sleeping posture on your right side. You move your right arm so that the shoulder is placed under your neck. You then turn your right elbow inward so that the palm of your hand is now right about beneath your ear. Then you take your left arm beneath your head grasping the thumb of your right hand. This forms a steady cradle which you can rest your head on. I wake up from this posture four hours into sleep with sore joints in my hip.

I really like my sleep. Food; I can take it or leave it. But this is the thing about fasting.

The mind is like the intestines in a very literal way. The mind clings to perceptions and feelings in the same way that the stomach clings to food.

Constipation of the mind is similar to constipation of the bowels in the sense that the contents of each organ will not leave the body despite any effort. In the case of the mind, the undesirable contents represent a complicated attachment to feelings built on craving and lust; made possible by consciousness. In the other case, the undesirable contents are too much digested waste, built on the foundations of too consumtion, with the help of a total lack of restraint.

The cure for the constipation felt in ones intestines is simple abstinence from food. This allows the gut to loosen up. Many will advise that a person continues eating as he prefers but adds more fiber to his diet. This addresses the symptoms of the constipation, but not the causes. The cause is over consumption of food.

There is no way to address the attachment one's mind has to perceptions and feelings without also considering the material aspect of nutrition. The two cannot be discussed separately as if the mind were but one thing and the body a whole other made out of something completely different. Consciousness, to be sure, is quite distinct from matter, however; an over consumption of food indirectly helps the cause of a continued attachment to the mental desires, cravings, lusts, and delusions which constitute the fundamental obstructions that exist around a persons desire for happiness.

But if the problem of over eating is resolved by discipline and restraint something beneficial, besides the vanishing of ones bunged up stomach, occurs. The mind gradually allows itself to fall into dispassion. The mind solemnly accepts the irrelevant fight it takes on day after day for the satisfaction of the ego. Beyond this, the mind becomes able to let go of those attachments. This cannot ever be accomplished in the case of a person who does not show restraint with regards to eating. Your karma is bound up with your material existence and your metal formations in a co-dependence of scenarios.

When you appease the torrent of violence created by the over consumption of food the body allows the faculties of the mind to relieve themselves of all perception. The ego accepts the dissolution of its existence, consciousness vanishes like evaporating steam, and this incurs the state of neither perception nor non-perception. Followed by this is the total cessation of perception and feeling.

The mind relaxes only after the body has relaxed and thus we get the reason for why those who are intent and devoted towards an understanding or a life of seclusion and self-denial with regards to the goal of spiritual gnosis show restraint and moderation in their consumption of foods.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by Jhana4 »

Since graduate school I have preferred sleeping on a mattress on a floor. I recently bought a bed. I'll let you know if it turns me into more of a worldling :)
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
daverupa
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by daverupa »

One of the benefits I experience from sleeping on the floor is a readiness to wake up in the morning and stretch - filling the space left by a disinclination to remain absorbed in drowsiness.

:heart:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by befriend »

if you eat less food it also helps curb lust, as well as make the mind light. think of how much energy it takes to digest a dinner in the evening when your already tired. now if you dont eat dinner you have more energy because your not digesting. also i agree with the last poster, when you sleep on the floor you wake up fast, buddha said he didnt want monks to sleep through the morning.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by befriend »

alan wrote:Sleep on a nice bed, and eat regularly. Don't fall into the stupid belief that following outdated rules will make you any more spiritual, or morally superior. Thinking for yourself is a better example of how to follow the path.

i used to think for myself. i thought it was fine to kill animals. get revenge. and smash things when i got angry. then i humbled myself, saw how wise buddha was listened to his advice and now im not a fool.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by Jhana4 »

daverupa wrote:One of the benefits I experience from sleeping on the floor is a readiness to wake up in the morning and stretch - filling the space left by a disinclination to remain absorbed in drowsiness.

:heart:

Having done that for over 10 years I would like to point out to you that it can lead to orthopedic issues, particularly if you sleep on your side and you have broad shoulders. Get a good mattress, if you want to be close to the ground put it on a futon base. Good luck.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
Jhana4
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by Jhana4 »

befriend wrote:if you eat less food it also helps curb lust, as well as make the mind light.
I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years and a vegan for over 15 years. My libido has never decreased.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
befriend
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by befriend »

what does being a vegetarian or vegan have to do with eating less food?
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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manas
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by manas »

Hi all,
yes I've practised the eight precepts a few times (usually this was on full moon days), and I agree they can be very useful for strengthening the mind's resolve, clarity and power. But alas, I too am chronically underweight, and I find that I cannot do it too often. Fortunately, I have discovered that skipping anger is much more conducive to spiritual development than skipping dinner. We should keep it in perspective. Between not eating dinner at night, and not yelling at someone who has just pushed us too far, my personal feeling is that giving up the outbust of anger is the more crucial spiritual practice. So, in my experience, if as a householder we find the eight precepts too stressful, and if we become snappy as a result with the people around us, then it would be better to just eat less at dinner time (ie a light easily digestible meal), than to try to fit ourselves into some kind of ideal that is really designed for a more contemplative lifestyle.
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
befriend
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by befriend »

good thinking, if we try to renounce too much at once, it will create MORE suffering, not less, and possibly lead to anger. i have experienced that.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by Nicro »

daverupa wrote:One of the benefits I experience from sleeping on the floor is a readiness to wake up in the morning and stretch - filling the space left by a disinclination to remain absorbed in drowsiness.

:heart:

:toast:

Best part in my opinion.
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by Nori »

daverupa wrote:One of the benefits I experience from sleeping on the floor is a readiness to wake up in the morning and stretch - filling the space left by a disinclination to remain absorbed in drowsiness.
This is a really good point. Thanks for pointing this out. When you wake up on an overly comfortable bed, you are inclined to indulge in it's pleasure (basically like having sex with it) like "ahhhhhhh" and roll around in it, stuffing your face in the pillow, or comforter, and rubbing your face on the soft sheets; and like you said inclined to oversleep.

---

I think many people are missing the point of the ascetic practice:

Indulgence in sensual pleasure makes a person weak and more prone to aggravation, anger and discontent.
Dhammapada - Yamakavagga (Dhp 1:7,8):

"He who lives looking for pleasures only, his senses uncontrolled, immoderate in his food, idle, and weak, Mâra (the tempter) will certainly overthrow him, as the wind throws down a weak tree.

He who lives without looking for pleasures, his senses well controlled, moderate in his food, faithful and strong, him Mâra will certainly not overthrow, any more than the wind throws down a rocky mountain."
This is clear to me from observation.

---

Some other benefits I can think of from eating once a day:

- According to the Buddha, pleasure, and the delight of this world is supposedly what keeps bringing us back to this existence, thus having to experience grief, decay and death over and over again. Eating is indeed one of the great pleasures and delights of this world. So by eating just what is necessary, one is detaching himself from this world.

- One's mind is not constantly preoccupied, thinking "what will I eat?", taking the time to purchase, prepare and eat it (which actually occupies much time and takes much effort), leaving time and energy to pursue other objectives.

A story: I was once out in the mountains backpacking. I was out for a few days and I began to run out of food. Toward the end of the trip, I was enjoying myself so much that I decided to stay a few more days by eating less food. During the last two days, I only had a little oatmeal for the morning. While I felt hunger at certain times, it was not too uncomfortable. What I noticed is that I didn't need to poop so often, and that it was greatly reduced. So what was happening is that my body was completely assimilating all of the food. Considering now, how much the common man poops, it goes to show how much we eat in excess. Also on the last day, I found a blueberry bush. I was astounded to experience how just a handful of blueberries nourished me. It felt like I ate a full meal. So I think when your body is in that state, it is very efficient at processing/utilizing food.
Last edited by Nori on Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
daverupa
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by daverupa »

Jhana4 wrote:Having done that for over 10 years I would like to point out to you that it can lead to orthopedic issues, particularly if you sleep on your side and you have broad shoulders. Get a good mattress, if you want to be close to the ground put it on a futon base. Good luck.
This is definitely a case of the variability of mileage. Correct posture is more essential than sleeping surface, and the two most common ways to negatively affect sleeping posture are too many pillows and a sagging mattress. Humans slept "on the floor" for at least 100,000 years; I found it useful to thoroughly explore this natural environment for understanding healthy sleep.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Nori
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by Nori »

Also just to mention, even the Buddha had some straw cut to sit on before his enlightenment.

The precept is not (necessarily) to sleep on the floor; just not a high lavish bed.
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