Why one meal a day?

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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by DNS »

For lay people there is no requirement to engage in these two higher precepts. It is simply a voluntary choice by some lay people to follow these on Uposatha days or in some cases on almost every day. No one is forced to follow these precepts. One can engage in them and see if it works. If it doesn't, then don't do it. If it works, great! As far as I can see, no one is claiming moral superiority for following these two precepts.

In my own experience I haven't noticed any difference one way or the other in regard to low or high beds. I sleep on a low platform bed, but not on the floor and in my opinion it doesn't matter for a lay person how low or high the bed is; what matters more is what you do with the mind while in bed.

But in regard to eating before noon and/or one meal, I have seen benefits for the mind, body (health), better sleep and one more big thing: more time!

When you only have to prepare one meal, you have much more time available, be it for work, study, family, meditation, etc. If it takes an average of about 30 minutes to prepare a meal, 30 minutes to eat it and 30 minutes to clean the preparation dishes, plates, and silverware, that is 1.5 hours per meal which = 4.5 hours per day if you eat 3 meals. But with one meal, you "save" about 3 hours per day to do other things.
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by David2 »

David N. Snyder wrote: In my own experience I haven't noticed any difference one way or the other in regard to low or high beds. I sleep on a low platform bed, but not on the floor and in my opinion it doesn't matter for a lay person how low or high the bed is;
.
Yes, what matters is not really how low or high a bed is, but how soft or hard (though low beds are most of the times harder than high beds).
The harder a sleeping place is, the more unlikely it is to oversleep and to waste time.
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by mikenz66 »

David N. Snyder wrote: In my own experience I haven't noticed any difference one way or the other in regard to low or high beds. I sleep on a low platform bed, but not on the floor and in my opinion it doesn't matter for a lay person how low or high the bed is; what matters more is what you do with the mind while in bed.
I agree. On the various retreats I've been on I just sleep on whatever is "given", which may well be a rather high bunk... Which I wouldn't lose any sleep over as far as the precepts are concerned, and I've never come across anyone who actually cared about whether the bed they were offered met some particular measure. Certainly none of the monks I've met...

:anjali:
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

This might be of interest:

Excerpt from: Uposatha Sila = The Eight-Precept Observance compiled and written by Somdet Phra Buddhaghosacariya (Ñanavara Thera)
translated from the Thai by Bhikkhu Kantasilo

''The eighth precept does not permit the use of high or large beds. It is still not clear what is meant here. Perhaps even the one who is observing the precepts doesn't understand completely. What is meant by a large bed, and what are the measurements that make a large bed unallowable?

Beds and stools, made of boards, rattan or cloth, may have many curved or straight legs. The bed should not exceed 8 sugata inches (approximately 20 modern inches [3]) in height, measured from the base board down. Exceeding this height would make the bed unallowable. In the case of a square stool, even if the legs exceed 8 sugata inches it is still allowable. If a bed has a back and side boards, even if it is a little over the prescribed dimensions it is allowable. A bed or stool that has legs longer than the allowed measurements but which is fixed in place is allowable. A bed which does not have a head board may, by putting wood under the legs, be elevated up to but not exceeding 8 sugata inches. High beds and seats tend to lead to boastfulness and excitement. Thus the purpose behind not sitting or lying on high seats or beds is to avoid the possibility of such things leading to lust.

What are the characteristics of beds and stools?
The bed is long and is for reclining upon. The stool is for sitting on and is either round or four-sided.
How many arms-widths or forearms-lengths in size before a bed is too big for use?
The bed is not measured in this fashion. The term 'big' here refers to coverings and decorations that should not be used. The Atthakatha Acariyas have arranged a list of nineteen.
• A seat adorned with images of fierce animals such as tigers, crocodiles, etc.
• Pelts with long fur. (The hairs exceed four inches in length.)
• Spreads made of wool, which are intricately embroidered.
• Spreads made of wool, with intricate designs.
• Spreads made of wool, with pictures of flowers.
• Spreads made of wool, with intricate pictures of various animals.
• Spreads made of wool, with hair on both sides.
• Spreads made of wool, with hair on one side.
• Spreads made out of tiger skins.
• Red canopy furnishings.
• Elephant rugs.
• Horse rugs.
• Chariot rugs.
• Spreads woven of gold and silk and trimmed in gold.
• Spreads woven of silk and trimmed in gold.
• A woolen spread big enough for 16 dancers to dance on.
• Spreads made from civet pelts.
• Beds with red cushions at both ends.
• A mattress stuffed with nothing but kapok.

Another explanation of the term 'big' or 'large' bed here is that it refers to a bed big enough for two or more persons. Those who keep the Uposatha precepts stay away from beds such as these, which are meant for couples.

What mattresses (stuffings) are allowable?
• Mattresses stuffed with wool or feathers or with fur from bipeds or quadrupeds but not with human hair.
• Mattresses stuffed with cloth.
• Mattresses stuffed with bark.
• Mattresses stuffed with grass.
• Mattresses stuffed with leaves, except for the leaves of the Borneo camphor. The leaves of the Borneo camphor, if mixed with the leaves of other trees, are allowable.
Mattresses in the above list have been allowed by the Buddha.

According to the Sutta, it is not allowable to lie on a large or high bed. ..............

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by mikenz66 »

Thanks Chris,

With those measurements it would actually be hard to find a bed that was "high".

:anjali:
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by PeterB »

First thing in the morning I am going to scour our local shops for Borneo Camphor leaves.
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by Pondera »

alan wrote:Sorry to disappoint you once again, my dear monk. Maybe one of these days you will state an opinion, instead of gritting your teeth in vain disapproval.
Friends: the best bed is the one that allows you the most restful sleep, so that you can awaken refreshed and ready to study. Any other considerations about beds is, in my opinion, a total waste of time. This absurd preoccupation with rules is completely pointless. Don't lose sleep over it!
So, is it the bed that allows you to have a restful sleep? Or do you think it might be due to something else? Are you sure that your own "opinions" haven't been too persuaded by the commercial broadcasts of Sleep Country USA? Why buy a mattress any where else?

If you really believe that getting a good sleep can't occur without at least some kind of mattress then you've either completely bought in to all of the propaganda put forth by the mattress companies, or fail to realize what in life actually allows for a good nights sleep.

Not having a mattress is simply the epitome of not having any singular possession at all. It's not the fact that you sleep on the ground that makes you morally superior and enables you to have a good night's sleep. It's the fact that you have no possessions whatsoever to worry about, which makes you a morally superior person, -independent of the illusion that society casts over its inhabitants, i.e. that you need all of these useless things, when in fact you do not. The freedom from attachments allows you to sleep. That's why my grandma could sleep through a wind storm, in her arm chair. She was a very happy woman. Content. And free.

If people find that they're happy sleeping on a meager type of mattress, or none at all, who are you to blame or critisize them so out rightly, as if you had the answers to everything? Better off are you to understand what it is in their waking that makes sleeping on a bed of thorns so pleasant. It's the people who invest all of their hopes in the quality of their mattress who have the most problems sleeping. So too do their attachments follow them into the land of slumber.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Post by Pondera »

alan wrote:Not relevant.
Accept or reject what I'm saying based upon reason. If I told you I lived in a cave in India for 20 years, would it influence your judgement?
The only person who would be influenced by judgement if you had lived in an Indian cave for 20 years, would be you and your own judgement. The point is that experience leads to knowledge. And you cannot reason a priori without experience.

Your reasoning is inductive, based on premises not supported by experience. Your reasoning is theoretical. Your reasoning applies in theory, but not in practice.

The other type of reasoning is empirical by nature. It is reasoning based on experience. Hence it is knowledge.

Whether you have tried to sleep on a hard bed, or to eat only one meal a day before noon is entirely relevant to what you are actually justified in putting forth as opinions on the topic.

And if you told a person that you lived in a cave in India for 20 years you would simply be lying. You have essentially asked, "Does my lack of experience influence your opinion about what I say or think or hold to be true." Yes! Of course I would be influenced by that. Your lack of experience regarding the matter makes your assertions utterly groundless!
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by Deminie »

Studies of animals have led to several hypotheses concerning the cellular and molecular mechanisms whereby dietary restriction extends lifespan and protects against disease. The oxidative stress hypothesis proposes that aging and age-related diseases result from cumulative oxidative damage to proteins, lipids, and nucleic acids; by decreasing the amount of oxyradicals produced in mitochondria, dietary restriction retards aging and disease. A second hypothesis is that dietary restriction is beneficial primarily because of its effects on energy metabolism; that is, it increases insulin sensitivity. A third hypothesis, which may have a particular relation to the beneficial effects of reduced meal frequency/intermittent fasting, is that dietary restriction induces a mild cellular stress response in which cells up-regulate the expression of genes that enable them to cope with severe stress.
Last edited by Deminie on Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by cooran »

Hello Terasi,

Hope this helps (at least regarding Bhikkhus):

Alms Food
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... .html#alms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by ground »

I feel that eating has a strong impact on practice. What one eats, why one eats special sorts of food, when one eats, how much one eats, how often one eats ... very important.
Why is eating so important for practice? Because it is a "must" on an continuing basis to keep this body alive. E.g. in contrast to this sexual activity is just an option but no "must". And because eating is a "must", a recurring necessity and because the physical senses are directly involved it is so important and has a strong impact on practice IMO.


Kind regards
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by manas »

TMingyur wrote:I feel that eating has a strong impact on practice. What one eats, why one eats special sorts of food, when one eats, how much one eats, how often one eats ... very important.
Why is eating so important for practice? Because it is a "must" on an continuing basis to keep this body alive. E.g. in contrast to this sexual activity is just an option but no "must". And because eating is a "must", a recurring necessity and because the physical senses are directly involved it is so important and has a strong impact on practice IMO.


Kind regards
Undertaking the Eight Precepts can stir up defilements from the murky depths, i've found; it helps throw them into light. I discover that at night, I'm not really hungry as such, but rather, I want the food for emotional comfort. If I take dark grape juice and some molasses, the unease goes away. I'm really beginning to question - (excepting those engaged in daily physical labour) - do we really need three meals a day? Is this not actually a burden on our system?

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Having had "one meal a day" (with only a few exceptions) since Easter, I can say that it is very possible, very realistic, and I've never felt healthier.

It is interesting though walking around at lunchtime seeing people eating their swanky lunches...

Metta,
Retro, weighing 13kg less than he did at Easter :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by manas »

:candle:
Last edited by manas on Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
manasikara wrote:I'm wondering if just one meal a day leaves you weakened at all, though.
Generally not... and interestingly, even though I only eat at dinnertime, most days at 6pm I'm less hungry than I used to be if I'd eaten both breakfast and lunch.
manasikara wrote:Do you really only have one meal?
Yes, though there are also coffees.

:coffee:
manasikara wrote:May I ask, what line of work are you engaged in? I'm assuming it's not digging up roads etc...
The above smilie answers that question too... heheh.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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