Are you S.A.D.?

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Ben » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:54 pm

Time to get back on topic, please!
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby meindzai » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:27 pm

alan wrote:I hate McDonalds too. But how does this relate to my original post?


Oh dear... :rolleye:

My fault. I forgot to review what the actual thread was about. I came to post about this and saw the title S.A.D. and thought it meant "Standard American Diet." That is the term I and others use for the way most people eat here. I was trying to use a current thread rather than create a new one..and..oh nevermind... :embarassed:

Moderators, feel free to split this thread.

[OK - Here's the topic on the Standard American Diet - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4008 - Thanks. Retro.]

-M
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 am

Greetings,

Some of you may know that I've been in the process of procuring an S.A.D. light that will actually work here in Australia, and after many complications that I'll spare you the details of, it arrived here a few days ago. Here's the officially sanctioned photo of the particular model I got...

Image

Now, whether or not it's simply that I'm no longer depressed that this had yet to arrive at the post office :tongue: but even just after a few days I'm feeling so much better already. The depression, along with all the other symptoms like lack of concentration, lack of energy, mental fog, and so on have all promptly vanished!

I know I had a few people to give updates to, so I thought I'd just do a public update here. So am I S.A.D.? No, not today... but lucky you didn't ask me this time last week!

Metta,
Retro, presently being blasted in the face by blue light :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby alan » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:02 am

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:05 am

:thumbsup:

Thanks Alan.
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby BlackBird » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:07 am

Real happy for you Retro

Good stuff :)

metta
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'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby alan » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:17 am

Blackbird, singing in the dead of night! Have you learned to fly?
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:44 am

Greetings,

Some interesting reading from Analayo's "From Craving to Liberation – Excursions into the Thought-world of the Pali Discourses"

4. Sloth-and-torpor / Thinamiddha

Sloth-and-torpor is the third in the standard listing of the five
hindrances, those detrimental mental states singled out for their
propensity to `hinder' the proper functioning of the mind
(DN I
246). The present essay will first survey the nature of this hindrance
(4.1) and then turn to the removal of sloth-and-torpor
(4.2).

4.1 The Nature of Sloth-and-torpor
The discourses indicate that the hindrance of sloth-and-torpor
can arise due to discontent, boredom, laziness, overeating, and
because of a depressed state of mind (SN V 64). The effect of
the hindrance sloth-and-torpor can be illustrated with the example
of a bowl full of water, used as a mirror in order to see
the reflection of one's face (SN V 121and AN III 232). If the
water in the bowl should be overgrown with moss, the natural
reflecting ability of the water will be impaired. Similarly, if the
mind is `overgrown' with sloth-and-torpor, its natural ability to
function properly will be impaired.
Additionally, the same image also depicts quite vividly that
the long-term result of sloth-and-torpor is stagnation, similar to
water overgrown by moss. In contrast to this predicament, to
be free from sloth-and-torpor is like being released from a
prison (MN I 275). This complementary simile reflects the degree
to which sloth-and-torpor `imprison' the mind.


The Vibha#ga, the second and perhaps earliest work in the
Pali Abhidhamma, explains sloth-and-torpor to imply "inability"
or "unreadiness"
(Vibh 254). Similar to this aspect of inability,
a discourse in the Sayutta-nikaya characterizes a
mind under the influence of sloth-and-torpor as "internally
stuck"
, ajjhatta sa#khitta (SN V 279).
Sloth-and-torpor, though counting as only one out of the five
hindrances, in actual fact covers two distinct mental factors.
This distinction is drawn in a discourse in the Sayutta-nikaya,
which differentiates between sloth and torpor as single hindrances
(SN V 110). These two distinct mental factors may
have been subsumed under the heading of a single hindrance
due to their similar effect on the mind.
....

4.2 The Removal of Sloth-and-torpor
A prominent antidote to sloth-and-torpor, mentioned on frequent
occasions in the Pali discourses, is the development of
"perception of light", alokasañña
, together with mindfulness
and clear comprehension (e.g. DN I 71). Some discourses associate
the expression "perception of light" with a mind that is
"open", viva.a, and "uncovered", apariyonaddha, by day and
by night, and indicate that such "perception of light" will lead
to knowledge and vision (DN III 223). This suggests the expression
"perception of light" to refer to the development of
mental clarity.

Such a way of understanding finds support in the Vibha#ga,
which glosses "perception of light" as a perception that is
"open", viva.a, "pure", parisuddha, and "clean", pariyodata
(Vibh 254). The commentaries, however, take the expression
"perception of light" more literally and suggest employing actual
light to overcome this hindrance, by looking at the moon,
for example, or at the sun
(Ps I 284).
Such "perception of light" takes place with the aid of mindfulness
and clear comprehension, which brings into play two
qualities as a remedy against sloth-and-torpor that indeed lead
to an increase of mental clarity.
This is not the only role mindfulness
has to play in relation to the hindrance of sloth-and-torpor.
According to the Satipa..hana-sutta, the tasks of mindfulness
in relation to this hindrance ranges from clear recognition
of the presence or absence of sloth-and-torpor to understanding
what has lead to the arising of this hindrance, what will lead to
its removal, and how a future arising of sloth-and-torpor can be
prevented (MN I 60).
....

The need to energetically overcome and remove this particular
hindrance should not be underestimated, since the presence
of sloth-and-torpor in the mind obstructs understanding one's
own good and that of others (AN III 63). Due to sloth-and-torpor,
one does what one should not do and fails to do what
should be done
(AN II 67).
Being excessively affected by sloth-and-torpor is a factor indicating
that a monk may be living the celibate life without
real inner satisfaction (SN III 106). To withdraw into solitude
in the forest will be of little benefit if one is still under the influence
of sloth-and-torpor
(MN I 18). Hence to meditate while
the hindrance sloth-and-torpor pervades the mind is a form of
mis-meditating (MN III 14). Being under the influence of
sloth-and-torpor is to be under Mara's control (Ud 38). As long
as sloth-and-torpor is present in the mind, liberation will remain
out of reach
(AN V 195).

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby OcTavO » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:32 pm

I was diagnosed with summer-onset seasonal affective disorder. Not many people know it exists. The common perception of S.A.D. is that it's all about lack of light. Summer onset S.A.D. is something of a mystery though... some studies seem to indicate it's related to brain temperature.

Also I feel I must give a quick response to Bhikkhu Pesala's comment about sadness being related to clinging and craving... this is very true, but we must remember that "sadness" is not "clinical depression" (and likewise "clinical depression" is not mere "sadness"). Clinical depression is a physical disorder, and unfortunately this is a concept almost impossible for someone who has never experienced it to comprehend.
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Goedert » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:33 pm

I agree with the above post.

Some times we crave for do something or to control the things, planning things to be perfect.

When we see anatta in the things and that we cant control external things, the sadness and boredom have a warrior to confront. Actually with a busy life sometimes we inevitable cling to it, the habit cultivated in the mind almost seen to be natural. But when we start observing our minds and let the thoughts and the cravings go we can start to recover our natural condition. The habit of the mind is like a stream line, any energy force produced in this stream constantily start to be as habitual and we start do things automatically, we start loosing control of the will power. With a strong effort and contemplation we start to see how this things rise and fall in the mind, then it starts to get easy to live with it.
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby PeterB » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:24 pm

no longer relevent.
Last edited by PeterB on Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby PeterB » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:31 pm

meindzai wrote:
Bubbabuddhist wrote:Alan, no disrespect, but I suspect Venerable Pesala has raised a good point worth consideration. I suspect Stream-entry would be an effective cure for any mood affective conditions. Any discussion here?

J


I bet even jhana(proper) would do it. The question is how we take care of ourselves before we get to that point.

-M

So are we saying that a stream winner would not have diabetes ? S.A.D. is no more a "mental "condition than diabetes is. Its metabolic. Its medical management is in managing the metabolic response...just as in diabetes.
Show me someone who has been diagnosed as having type 1 diabetes but does not need insulin because he goes into jhanic states .....and I will be very interested.
In the meantime Retro keep on with your gadget and good luck.
:anjali:
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby OcTavO » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:22 pm

PeterB wrote:So are we saying that a stream winner would not have diabetes ? S.A.D. is no more a "mental "condition than diabetes is. Its metabolic. Its medical management is in managing the metabolic response...just as in diabetes.
Show me someone who has been diagnosed as having type 1 diabetes but does not need insulin because he goes into jhanic states .....and I will be very interested.


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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Goedert » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:52 pm

PeterB wrote:no longer relevent.


I was relating to Bhikkhu Pesala coment and that our friend posted, saying that sadness is not clinical depression.
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby PeterB » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:20 am

OK this is becoming a bit confusing...I queried a post that Goedert made, which he then edited, and I then posted that MY post was no longer relevant..in light of his edit. It was not a comment on his post..

Anyway many depressive conditions are as much " physical " in origin as they are " mental ". This does not mean that talking therapies will not be effective, but that is a whole other subject..
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