Are you S.A.D.?

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby alan » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:00 pm

Retro,
That looks like it would do the job, assuming you can get it close enough, and the light does not distract you from computer work.
I chose a table lamp that has a dimmer control; I can blast it at full volume and have it a slightly above my head and out of direct sight, but still work on my laptop. It is also great as a task lamp when I have to look down on small items. Finally, in the early evenings I will aim it up at a nearby wall or even towards the ceiling to brighten the room. All these make a table lamp with a flexible head more useful for me.
I bought the BLuemax from fullspectrum and love it.

To everyone else: light deprivation causes real problems to some of us. In winter I was sluggish and de-motivated to the point where I just really don't care at all about...anything. Please don't make judgements until you've read the science. It might seen silly but for me there had to be a break from dark winters or I was going to degenerate.
Cheers,
Alan
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:48 pm

alan wrote:To everyone else: light deprivation causes real problems to some of us. In winter I was sluggish and de-motivated to the point where I just really don't care at all about...anything. Please don't make judgements until you've read the science.

No one said it didn't cause real problems. What I said (in effect) was that better lighting is not a real solution. Please don't make any judgements about the effectiveness of mindfulness as a cure for suffering until you have practised it assiduously for a long time.

If happiness is dependent on conditions (good lighting, good food, or whatever), then it is not real happiness. Search for that happiness which is not dependent on any conditions.

As long as we are not completely free from ill-will (dosa), which means attaining the third stage of the path, we will not be free from sorrow (domanassa).
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby alan » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:52 pm

I asked you to look at the science. This is a medical problem, and should be treated as such.
I'll take your advice on matters where you have more knowledge and experience; this is not one of them.
Regards,
Alan
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:25 pm

Alan, no disrespect, but I suspect Venerable Pesala has raised a good point worth consideration. I suspect Stream-entry would be an effective cure for any mood affective conditions. Any discussion here?

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby meindzai » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:10 pm

Bubbabuddhist wrote:Alan, no disrespect, but I suspect Venerable Pesala has raised a good point worth consideration. I suspect Stream-entry would be an effective cure for any mood affective conditions. Any discussion here?

J


I bet even jhana(proper) would do it. The question is how we take care of ourselves before we get to that point.

-M
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:11 pm

Lovingly.

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:19 pm

Early to bed, early to rise, makes the mind healthy, wealthy and wise! or so the saying goes, and this is very true, live in accordance with the Dhamma and the Dhamma will protect you.

there is a sutta with a comment on light and how the practice can make the night as thought it is day, it is off the top of my head and I know it isn't correct as a quote, maybe someone has an Idea which one it is?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby meindzai » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:55 pm

Manapa wrote:
there is a sutta with a comment on light and how the practice can make the night as thought it is day, it is off the top of my head and I know it isn't correct as a quote, maybe someone has an Idea which one it is?


Iddhipada-vibhanga Sutta: Analysis of the Bases of Power

If this is the Sutta you're referring too, I've never quite thought of it in relation to what you've described, but it's as good an analysis as I've seen, since I've always found the passage a little strange:

[quote]"There is the case where a monk develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on desire & the fabrications of exertion, thinking, 'This desire of mine will be neither overly sluggish nor overly active, neither inwardly restricted nor outwardly scattered.' He keeps perceiving what is in front & behind so that what is in front is the same as what is behind, what is behind is the same as what is in front. What is below is the same as what is above, what is above is the same as what is below. [He dwells] by night as by day, and by day as by night. By means of an awareness thus open & unhampered, he develops a brightened mind."[/quote]

I always tended to think of it in terms of how we tend to have certain associations to night and day that are really rather arbitary, and how there can be some benefit to erasing those. I guess it ties in with what you are saying but I think of it more broadly.

-M
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby BlackBird » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:00 pm

Ben wrote:Do it this way Retro, and they really will think you're enlightened!
fester01.jpg


Hahaha
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:08 pm

meindzai wrote:
Manapa wrote:
there is a sutta with a comment on light and how the practice can make the night as thought it is day, it is off the top of my head and I know it isn't correct as a quote, maybe someone has an Idea which one it is?


Iddhipada-vibhanga Sutta: Analysis of the Bases of Power

If this is the Sutta you're referring too, I've never quite thought of it in relation to what you've described, but it's as good an analysis as I've seen, since I've always found the passage a little strange:

Thanks that is the passage . . .
I have heard of some who after formal practice could see very clearly, like the light was on full, instead of turned down low (with the dimmer.)

I do think there is an aspect of, to use your words, erasing those arbitary associations, but there is also an aspect of being receptive to what is there, there is light at night time, and light in the day, it is the same light (from a sun/s) the only difference is the amount of light we get, and how we get it (directly or reflected,) and certainly it may not be as powerful, but it is still there.
part of the foundations of mindfulness, (as a seperate thing to the references) is an aspect of appropriate attention, setting aside greed and distress in regard to the world, and allot of the minor (i.e., likelihood of full medical intervention/hospitalisation for the condition is high) depressive disorders can be relieved with this appropriate attention, and even the major ones management can be helped using this.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby PeterB » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:41 pm

Its interesting to me that the only case of S.A.D. I have encountered which was not self diagnosed, was not that of a patient, it was in fact a colleague. I conclude from this ( possibly wrongly ) that its not very prevelant. Not that this is of comfort to those who experience it.
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:39 pm

Back to SAD (and what an interesting journey it has been) I ponder if it is part of an overall uber-cycle of a larger condition. I have a tendency toward it and I'm a textbook bipolar II. But lots of stressors/stimulants can trigger a mood shift; seasonal shifts among them. Bipolars respond to all kinds of treatment. I responded well to an off the label medication that is usually used for migraine and epilepsy. Perhaps SAD is a side effect of a larger condition?

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby PeterB » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:59 pm

I think John that " normal" is in fact a spectrum...Most of us will fit one niche along that spectrum in relation to arousal/depression and possibly another in relation to extravert/introvert etc.
We are a complex of genetics, environment, and presumably, karma.
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:11 pm

Yeah, Pete--but it ain't "normal" to hear voices when people aren't around and not sleep for four days at a time. :lol: Well, it is in my world. Your results may vary. Beats watching Friends reruns Bwhahahahahaha!

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby PeterB » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:34 pm

Well thats one end of the spectrum... :smile:
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby bodom » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:05 pm

alan wrote:I asked you to look at the science. This is a medical problem, and should be treated as such.
I'll take your advice on matters where you have more knowledge and experience; this is not one of them.
Regards,
Alan


Alan is this one of those times we should be paying attention and thinking for ourselves as yout advised in another thread? Venerable Bhikkhu Pesala is highly renowned and you should take heed to whatever wisdom he has to offer. Please dont be rude when someone offers you help, even if its advice you dont want to hear. This is a buddhist forum. You are bound to get buddhist views on any question asked or subject raised. If you are looking for solely "scientific" or medical based responses you might want to look at another site or forum, one devoted entirely to this subject.

:anjali:
Last edited by bodom on Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Ben » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:17 pm

Bubbabuddhist wrote:Alan, no disrespect, but I suspect Venerable Pesala has raised a good point worth consideration. I suspect Stream-entry would be an effective cure for any mood affective conditions. Any discussion here?

J


I think you're right john.
A few years ago I was in contact with a research hub at Macquarie University. They were trialling the use of mindfulness meditation in a cohort of cancer patients who suffered from depression. When I spoke to them, they only had the preliminary findings in. What they were discovering was that the patients who practiced mindfulness meditation came off their anti-depressants before their non-meditating co-patients, and they suffered less relapses of depression. And they were essentially "newbies" practicing a watered down form of vipassana. I imagine the effects of continuous daily practice of samatha and/or vipassana would have profound impacts on mood disorders.
kind regards

Ben
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:58 pm

Hi Ben,
I believe Goenkas site has some research into this??

There is ongoing research obvioiusly with other mood disorders, but these such as manic depression are helped with stress reduction techniques (i.e., MBSR, MBCT etc,) and from personal experiance, the whole of the teachings are more than helpful.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby alan » Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:26 pm

Hi Bodom.
I was under the impression this was a sub-forum of the Lounge. Was that incorrect?
The post was for people who have this condition, and to share my excitement at feeling better. I've read through the post again and will stand by my response.
Cheers,
Alan
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby bodom » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:44 pm

alan wrote:Hi Bodom.
I was under the impression this was a sub-forum of the Lounge. Was that incorrect?
The post was for people who have this condition, and to share my excitement at feeling better. I've read through the post again and will stand by my response.
Cheers,
Alan


While I am happy that you are feeling better, right speech is to be practiced Irregardless of where you post, especially when directed to monastics.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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