Growing your own

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Re: Growing your own

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:23 am

greenthumb wrote:My folk grew up in areas where there is no way they could live off plants and get proper proteins for the body to function correctly. I live in a similar environment.


I don't know where your family grew up, Greenthumb, but i can tell you that it's a myth that one can only get "proper" protein from animals. In fact, qualitatively, a plant-based diet is far superior to anything else. One of the main reasons is that the nutrients derived from plants come without cholesterol, fat, and heme-iron. In fact, a vast body of research including meta-analyses and longitudinal studies are confirming the significant health benefits of a whole foods plant-based (vegan) diet.

I am eating what my local environment can grow without leaving a huge footprint, learning how to trade and barter, getting to know and establish relationship with my community, and preserving my culture while integrating what I've learned practicing Buddhism.
I truly commend you n your efforts for sustainability and health. You set a great example which many should emulate. However, I would sk you also to consider your ethical footprint. If you refrained from intentionally killing you would be maintaining the first precept. Sila is the foundation of our dealings with other beings and ourselves. Without sila, there can be no progress on the path. Samadhi and panna depend on the strong foundation of sila.

May we all find health and happiness.

Indeed, and may we all be liberated.
With metta,
Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: Growing your own

Postby greenthumb » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:15 am

Ben I can't grow the plants here in the foothills of the Cascades that will give full proper proteins. My goal is to be totally self sufficient were I live, living on what I can grow. My folk come from Idaho and Montana, the Indian side lived on lots of buffalo, most of the family is now trying to go back to traditional foods to regain their health … ha! The other side lived on lots of moonshine, we were/are farmers and jack of all trades (j/k sorta) …haha…

I've been vegan before and that diet made my fibromyalgia go crazy (who knows what fibro really is but it's nasty and painful to my back, joints, and lower GI, pancreas and gallbladder, thyroid, and I can't think straight)! I got really skinny though, that was super nice, except I lost a lot of hair. Yes I followed a nutritionist diet plan, I was vegan for about 3 years so I wasn't just going through detox.

I don't murder, nor do I kill for ritual or profit…I am doing pretty good! I do kill to eat and that's why I didn't really want to discuss this. Because it' gets really hot and personal. I would rather do the killing than someone else, seems so cowardly having someone else kill your food. I'll take the karma and deal with it, I don't want someone else to take it on for me. If I can't care for my own livestock and have to eat out of the store, I refuse to eat animal products. I've never seen people freak out over diets so much except maybe their politics. If anyone attacks me or my family, they better watch out because I am not shy of using guns for protection either, I will kill in self defense. And yes I've been trained in the use of firearms since the age of six years old. It's part of my culture. Up here in rural Oregon, we hardly have any break-ins or gun accidents, everyone knows everyone else is armed and well trained.

I don't kill chickens at retreats, that's where I fully observe sila. I'm pretty good with all the 2,3,4,5, in fact you could say I am a saint, except for the killing of chickens!

1. Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.
2. Adinnadana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given.
3. Kamesu micchacara veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct.
4. Musavada veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech.
5. Suramerayamajja pamadatthana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.

May we all find health and happiness!
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Re: Growing your own

Postby greenthumb » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:22 am

This is my journey and I am not trying to convert anyone, please do not take what I say personal, I am telling my story. From the Requisites of Enlightenment by Ledi Sayadaw: P 20, Even in the case of hunters and fishermen, it should not be said that they should not practice samatha-vipas sanaa-manasikaara (advertence of mind towards Tranquility and Insight) unless they discard their avocations. One who says so causes dhammantaraaya (Obstruction to the Dhamma). Hunters and fishermen should, on the other hand, be encouraged to contemplate the noble qualities of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha. They should be induced to contemplate as much as is in their power, the characteristic of loathsomeness in one's body. They should be urged to contemplate the liability of oneself and all creatures to death. I have come across the case of a leading fisherman who, as a result of such encouragement, could repeat fluently from memory the Paali Text and 'nissaya' (word for word translation) of the Abhidhammattha Sa.ngha, and the Paccaya Niddesa of the Patthaana (book of relations), while still following the profession of a fisherman. These accomplishments constitute very good foundations for the acquisition of vijjaa (knowledge).

p. 21 Some teachers who are aware only of the existence of direct and unequivocal statements in the Paali Text regarding the order of practice of the seven vissuddhs (Purifications), but who take no account of the value of the present times, say that in the practices of Samatha and vipassanaa (tranquility and Insight) no results can be achieved unless sila-visuddha (Purification of Virtue) is first fulfilled, whatever be the intensity of the effort. Some of the uninformed ordinary folk are beguiled by such statements. Thus has the Dhammantaraaya (Obstruction to the Dhamma) occurred.

I don't kill chickens every day (only a week out of the year in September, harvest season) and I don't know if I will kill anymore next year but I still continue on with my practices no matter what. May we all find peace and happiness!
Form is like a glob of foam; feeling, a bubble; perception, a mirage; fabrications, a banana tree; consciousness, a magic trick this has been taught by the Kinsman of the Sun. Phena Sutta: Foam
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Re: Growing your own

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:43 am

For what it's worth, Greenthumb, I'm on your side. :hug:
There are so many arguments pro and con vegetarianism and/or killing for food that it looks like any position at all is justifiable - yours, Ben's, whatever - look through The Great Vegetarian Debate (2294 posts and counting :rolleye: ) http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229and you will see what I mean.
To me, whole foods, natural foods and local foods are all good; a mostly-plant-based diet is good; eating meat but refusing to accept responsibility for the animal deaths is a cop-out; in most Buddhist countries, most people eat meat; and the Buddha did not expect lay followers to be vegetarian.
:shrug:
We make our choices and live with the consequences.

:namaste:
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Re: Growing your own

Postby greenthumb » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:58 pm

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some of my corn and squash, takes a lot of land to grow enough corn to make it through the winter. I still don't have enough cleared to live off of this combo... Beans, corn, and squash are called the Three Sisters by Native Americans. The combination made into a tasty stew is called succotash and is a complete protein. The corn needs to be soaked in slack lime to remove the outer hull and activate minerals and vitamins or folk that eat a high corn based diet get a disease called pellagra. I have read several books that state our modern diseases we suffer from now are caused by lack of proper vitamins and minerals. We have tons of food with very little nutritional value. Lots of over weight nutritionally starving people.

@Kim I saw that vegetarian vs meat eater thread, no way I am going near it! I would probably get kicked off this very nice well mannered site :tongue: I figure the best way to approach this issues would be to have folk go organic and eat local, find out what they can do within their means. After getting the industrial tongue conditioned to eating whole and organic one can explore the best diet for their physical needs and practice. Support the small organic farm movement and grow your own even if it's just a pot of cooking herbs! For my body tons of dark greens like collards, chard, kale, root crops like beets, carrots, diakon are super foods! I bet I could go vegan now that my gut is healed and the flora and fauna are strong enough to pull the nutrients out I need. I will try again someday because I really like how skinny my butt became…hahah! :heart: :jumping:
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