Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

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Hanzze
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Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby Hanzze » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:19 am

Dear friends,

what do you think, does our packing material, storage of food, preparation and availability has more unwholesome effects that the food itself?
The circle of wast and transport and all its effect on our self is maybe much more important to over think as to quarrel between, meet, vegetarian and vegan. Lets view a little on the shadow of our food, which might be much bigger as we think.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:45 pm

Greetings Hanzze,

What you mean by "unwholesome"?

In English Buddhist circles this word is often taken as a translation for the Pali terms akusala.

I'm assuming that's not what you mean, however...

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby cooran » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:19 am

Hello Hanzze, all,

One of the things which horrify me when I go to India, is the piles of plastic packing alongside roadways in urban and rural areas. Sometimes long mounds a metre high running the length of the roads. There are very few garbage pick-up services anywhere except certain areas in huge cities. thousands of the iconic Indian cows which live on the streets of towns and cities, and who have for centuries traditionally eaten the food waste placed on the streets, are now dying a horrific death each year due to the greed of the Western and Indian manufacturers and wholesalers who know the extent of the problem, but continue to use polythene wrapping and packing.

Plastic Bags are Choking the Life out of India
http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Polyet ... 2oct00.htm
No more plastic bags, please!
http://noplasticbags.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ec-12.html
Africa: Plastic-bag-free zone
http://www.thesolutionsjournal.com/news ... -free-zone

Many communities are declaring themselves Polythene Free Zones:
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&xhr=t&q ... 9fd6f41cf5

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:25 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby cooran » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:36 am

Hanzze said: It needs a time, but from a different view it is better than to put it back into the circle, isn't it?


I'm not sure what you mean here Hanzze.

But the best solution would be to not use plastic packaging at all - and this could be done, and has been done for thousands of years.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:39 am

Yes cooran,

that is the only way, and Buddhism provides all this, but how to encourage Buddhists especially Monks?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:38 am

Greetings Hanzze,

Hanzze wrote:yes, exactly: akusala. Negative effects, not for the benefit of one self and mostly also not for others.

Akusala is a quality of action - i.e. the unwholesome quality of the mindstate underpinning action.

Accordingly there is nothing inherently akusala about "packing material", "transport" or "food" for that matter... which makes a bit of a nonsense of this whole topic.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:46 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:05 am

Greetings Hanzze,

Hanzze wrote:So what is your intention when you buy a packed food (just if you by it mindful)?
So what is your intention when you buy something from far away?


If you do not conceive of it as "packed food" or as "something from far away" or understand the environmental implications of that, then intention is irrelevant. A thought that you do not even have cannot be rooted in anything.

Just say you did know the environmental consequences and you did conceive of them in such a way when at the supermarket... what then? You might feel guilty perhaps, and experience a mindstate rooted in aversion. When you buy local produce or something without packaging, you might experience a mindstate rooted in generosity or lovingkindess. Maybe... but there's no guarantee of any of that.

What is far more relevant is the Right Effort component of the Noble Eightfold Path.... replacing unwholesome mindstates with wholesome ones, and then maintaining wholesome mindstates. That applies to any situation though... whether we're talking food, packaging and transport... or whether we're talking monkeys, comets and spaceships.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Hanzze
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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:28 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:13 am

Greetings Hanzze,

Hanzze wrote:what is your intention when you buy it or let it pack?

I would base my purchases on the following criteria (which could influence intention) above issues such as the packaging and place of origin.

- Cost
- Quality of product
- Size (and in turn, the cost:size ratio)
- Whether it is regular price or "on special"
- Expiration date
- How it compares on the above criteria to other products on the shelf

Generally, I think attempts to integrate environmentalism with Theravada Buddhism are well-meaning, but unproductive... they work on such different schemas that there's no logical way to superimpose the two - best to regard them as two separate frameworks rather than smoosh them into one. You may have better luck on a Mahayana/environmentalism synthesis.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby Ben » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:16 am

Can someone explain to me what is going on here??
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:26 am

Greetings Hanzze,

Hanzze wrote:It is so dangerous to life two lives and is is so needed to make it understandable that there is a truth that works in every case.

Well, you integrate away if you like, but don't be surprised if:

- Others find them incompatible and see the contradictions
- You find them incompatible over time because they yield different actions (you already have a hint of this when you brought monks into the equation)
- No one knows what on earth you're talking about

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby poto » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:59 am

retrofuturist wrote:Generally, I think attempts to integrate environmentalism with Theravada Buddhism are well-meaning, but unproductive... they work on such different schemas that there's no logical way to superimpose the two - best to regard them as two separate frameworks rather than smoosh them into one.


I have come to a similar conclusion. Thank you for wording it more eloquently than I have been able to.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:18 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:01 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:22 am

Greetings Hanzze

Hanzze wrote:I also know that I have no knowledge about the suttas

... and whilst this remains the case you will continue to be utterly perplexed when people do not buy into your pet theories and animistic folk Dharma. What more can I say that others have not told you already?

If on the other hand you actually wish to remedy this situation with regards to an understanding of kusala and akusala action in the Buddha's teaching, try the following text...

The Roots of Good and Evil - Buddhist Texts translated from the Pali
With Comments and Introduction by Nyanaponika Thera
http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh251-p.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Hanzze
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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby Hanzze » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:47 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:50 am

Greetings Hanzze,

Hanzze wrote:What benefit has an religion or a philosophy if it is not usable in daily life?

:strawman:

The Dhamma is applicable in every moment of daily life. You're not suggesting otherwise are you?

Hanzze wrote:Or is this the part, where we need to decide for science as the Buddha had told?

:strawman:

What are you talking about?

Hanzze wrote:Let me claim for the right effort, there is no need to separate live in two parts.

:strawman:

Who is saying that? Living by the Dhamma requires "no need to separate live in two parts"

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)


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