Dear friends,
what do you think, does our packing material, storage of food, preparation and availability has more unwholesome effects that the food itself?
The circle of wast and transport and all its effect on our self is maybe much more important to over think as to quarrel between, meet, vegetarian and vegan. Lets view a little on the shadow of our food, which might be much bigger as we think.
Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
-
retrofuturist
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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
Greetings Hanzze,
What you mean by "unwholesome"?
In English Buddhist circles this word is often taken as a translation for the Pali terms akusala.
I'm assuming that's not what you mean, however...
Metta,
Retro.
What you mean by "unwholesome"?
In English Buddhist circles this word is often taken as a translation for the Pali terms akusala.
I'm assuming that's not what you mean, however...
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
Hello Hanzze, all,
One of the things which horrify me when I go to India, is the piles of plastic packing alongside roadways in urban and rural areas. Sometimes long mounds a metre high running the length of the roads. There are very few garbage pick-up services anywhere except certain areas in huge cities. thousands of the iconic Indian cows which live on the streets of towns and cities, and who have for centuries traditionally eaten the food waste placed on the streets, are now dying a horrific death each year due to the greed of the Western and Indian manufacturers and wholesalers who know the extent of the problem, but continue to use polythene wrapping and packing.
Plastic Bags are Choking the Life out of India
http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Polyet ... 2oct00.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No more plastic bags, please!
http://noplasticbags.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ec-12.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Africa: Plastic-bag-free zone
http://www.thesolutionsjournal.com/news ... -free-zone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Many communities are declaring themselves Polythene Free Zones:
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&xhr=t&q ... 9fd6f41cf5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
One of the things which horrify me when I go to India, is the piles of plastic packing alongside roadways in urban and rural areas. Sometimes long mounds a metre high running the length of the roads. There are very few garbage pick-up services anywhere except certain areas in huge cities. thousands of the iconic Indian cows which live on the streets of towns and cities, and who have for centuries traditionally eaten the food waste placed on the streets, are now dying a horrific death each year due to the greed of the Western and Indian manufacturers and wholesalers who know the extent of the problem, but continue to use polythene wrapping and packing.
Plastic Bags are Choking the Life out of India
http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Polyet ... 2oct00.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No more plastic bags, please!
http://noplasticbags.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ec-12.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Africa: Plastic-bag-free zone
http://www.thesolutionsjournal.com/news ... -free-zone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Many communities are declaring themselves Polythene Free Zones:
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&xhr=t&q ... 9fd6f41cf5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
I'm not sure what you mean here Hanzze.Hanzze said: It needs a time, but from a different view it is better than to put it back into the circle, isn't it?
But the best solution would be to not use plastic packaging at all - and this could be done, and has been done for thousands of years.
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
Yes cooran,
that is the only way, and Buddhism provides all this, but how to encourage Buddhists especially Monks?
that is the only way, and Buddhism provides all this, but how to encourage Buddhists especially Monks?
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
-
retrofuturist
- Posts: 27860
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
Greetings Hanzze,
Accordingly there is nothing inherently akusala about "packing material", "transport" or "food" for that matter... which makes a bit of a nonsense of this whole topic.
Metta,
Retro.
Akusala is a quality of action - i.e. the unwholesome quality of the mindstate underpinning action.Hanzze wrote:yes, exactly: akusala. Negative effects, not for the benefit of one self and mostly also not for others.
Accordingly there is nothing inherently akusala about "packing material", "transport" or "food" for that matter... which makes a bit of a nonsense of this whole topic.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
-
retrofuturist
- Posts: 27860
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
Greetings Hanzze,
Just say you did know the environmental consequences and you did conceive of them in such a way when at the supermarket... what then? You might feel guilty perhaps, and experience a mindstate rooted in aversion. When you buy local produce or something without packaging, you might experience a mindstate rooted in generosity or lovingkindess. Maybe... but there's no guarantee of any of that.
What is far more relevant is the Right Effort component of the Noble Eightfold Path.... replacing unwholesome mindstates with wholesome ones, and then maintaining wholesome mindstates. That applies to any situation though... whether we're talking food, packaging and transport... or whether we're talking monkeys, comets and spaceships.
Metta,
Retro.
If you do not conceive of it as "packed food" or as "something from far away" or understand the environmental implications of that, then intention is irrelevant. A thought that you do not even have cannot be rooted in anything.Hanzze wrote:So what is your intention when you buy a packed food (just if you by it mindful)?
So what is your intention when you buy something from far away?
Just say you did know the environmental consequences and you did conceive of them in such a way when at the supermarket... what then? You might feel guilty perhaps, and experience a mindstate rooted in aversion. When you buy local produce or something without packaging, you might experience a mindstate rooted in generosity or lovingkindess. Maybe... but there's no guarantee of any of that.
What is far more relevant is the Right Effort component of the Noble Eightfold Path.... replacing unwholesome mindstates with wholesome ones, and then maintaining wholesome mindstates. That applies to any situation though... whether we're talking food, packaging and transport... or whether we're talking monkeys, comets and spaceships.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
-
retrofuturist
- Posts: 27860
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
Greetings Hanzze,
- Cost
- Quality of product
- Size (and in turn, the cost:size ratio)
- Whether it is regular price or "on special"
- Expiration date
- How it compares on the above criteria to other products on the shelf
Generally, I think attempts to integrate environmentalism with Theravada Buddhism are well-meaning, but unproductive... they work on such different schemas that there's no logical way to superimpose the two - best to regard them as two separate frameworks rather than smoosh them into one. You may have better luck on a Mahayana/environmentalism synthesis.
Metta,
Retro.
I would base my purchases on the following criteria (which could influence intention) above issues such as the packaging and place of origin.Hanzze wrote:what is your intention when you buy it or let it pack?
- Cost
- Quality of product
- Size (and in turn, the cost:size ratio)
- Whether it is regular price or "on special"
- Expiration date
- How it compares on the above criteria to other products on the shelf
Generally, I think attempts to integrate environmentalism with Theravada Buddhism are well-meaning, but unproductive... they work on such different schemas that there's no logical way to superimpose the two - best to regard them as two separate frameworks rather than smoosh them into one. You may have better luck on a Mahayana/environmentalism synthesis.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
Can someone explain to me what is going on here??
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html
BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
-
retrofuturist
- Posts: 27860
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
Greetings Hanzze,
- Others find them incompatible and see the contradictions
- You find them incompatible over time because they yield different actions (you already have a hint of this when you brought monks into the equation)
- No one knows what on earth you're talking about
Metta,
Retro.
Well, you integrate away if you like, but don't be surprised if:Hanzze wrote:It is so dangerous to life two lives and is is so needed to make it understandable that there is a truth that works in every case.
- Others find them incompatible and see the contradictions
- You find them incompatible over time because they yield different actions (you already have a hint of this when you brought monks into the equation)
- No one knows what on earth you're talking about
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Packing and transport more unwholesome than the food?
I have come to a similar conclusion. Thank you for wording it more eloquently than I have been able to.retrofuturist wrote: Generally, I think attempts to integrate environmentalism with Theravada Buddhism are well-meaning, but unproductive... they work on such different schemas that there's no logical way to superimpose the two - best to regard them as two separate frameworks rather than smoosh them into one.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis