Fasting and frugality in food

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Bunjers
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Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Bunjers »

There is a thread on Uposatha observance (http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... t=uposatha" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and the one-sessioner's practice (http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... it=fasting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) but I can't see a discussion on fasting. I am part of the FB Uposatha observance group, but have only properly kept the Uposatha once, because I have ended up eating after midday. Even so I think it would be helpful to start the one-sessioners practice and try a short fast.

I'd like to hear about anyone's experiences with fasting. Has anyone tried more extended periods, perhaps 3 days to a week or longer? I have seen some videos on youtube of people fasting. At one point I think it would be interesting to try a 3 day fast, because that seems achievable, safe and not too extreme!

I must admit that (like a lot of modern people!) I have a bit of an issue with attachment to food and greed. I am trying to combat this with mindful eating, and attempting to keep uposathas. The reason I'm attracted to these practices (of fasting and 'Vikalabhojana') is that I am trying to regain a healthier relationship with food. I want to find more time for dhamma practice and all the other important things in my life, instead of spending so much of my time cooking and eating.

Here is part of a desana by Ven. Maha Bua (which you can find here http://www.luangta.com/English/site/audio.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; [15 of Aug. 1979] - 'Difference between Study and Practice') which I have transcribed. He talks wisely about what benefits fasting might have for someone inclined to it.

"When you fast, that is the time when you really concentrate and intensify your efforts in your practice. Your exertion is then far more strenuous than it would normally be. When one fasts or reduces the quantity one eats then this is the means of getting one's mindfulness or sati to become more nimble. For one who finds that fasting suits his character, then when he does it in his practice of bhavana he will become very quick and easy, much more so than when he eats regularly. But if one's character is not suited to this method then it is really detrimental because it will just cause one to become concerned or worried about food turning one's exertion into Sañña Aramana and one will not be exerting in the true sense. This is when one finds that fasting doesn't suit one's temperament.

For one who finds it suitable to his character then his body will become light, the citta will become quick, nimble and alert. When one strives in the way of samadhi one's mindfulness will be very good and one will not be disturbed by sleepiness. So one can really see that the cause of sleepiness is just from eating a lot of food. After one has fasted for two or three days then drowsiness will not bother one anymore. No matter how long one sits, one will sit erect like a post and if one establishes calm of the citta it will enter into it readily. There is nothing to bother one's heart. And then when one goes in the way of pañña it will flow very easily turning round and round and round. This is when it suits one's character.

Regardless of what level of citta bhavana or dhamma one is in, the means and techniques of practice, like fasting for instance, if it suits one's character, will always aid and promote one's progress. But if they do not suit one's character then they will always be contrary to, or going against one's practice of the Way."

Sorry if this post is way too long-winded, maybe I have introduced too many thoughts?
Anyway, thanks for reading would appreciate your thoughts :thanks: Peace :smile:
Gāravo ca nivāto ca, Santutthi ca kataññutā, Kālena dhammasavanam, Etam mangalamuttamam :anjali:
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phil
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by phil »

Hi, I respect your attempts to reshape your attitudes and habits re food, the Buddha certainly points us in that direction. I would have assumed that 3 day fasts or longer would fall outside the middle way, didn't the Buddha come to understand that fasting was not the middle way? I might be wrong. In my case, I try to avoid consuming too many empty calories (i.e junk food) in line with the Buddha's teaching that food should be for the body's maintenance, not for the pleasure of the mouth or other reasons.
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
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Jhana4
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Jhana4 »

Most of what you can find to read about fasting is anti-scientific trash. I did find one book once that looks at what __ medical literature__ has to say about fasting.

http://www.amazon.com/Fasting-Eating-He ... 031218719X" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The medical doctor who wrote the book and who used to run a fasting clinic, would typically not give fasting to patients unless they were able to demonstrate to him that they ALREADY had a healthy relationship with food for a number of good reasons.

According to the author of the book, a fast that lasts only 3 days is still going to be in the range of the body cleaning itself out and dumping garbage into your blood stream, making you feel like crap. You wouldn't gorge yourself before meditation because that would do nothing but make it hard to focus. A 3 day fast is the same thing in reverse.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
mlswe
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by mlswe »

stayed away from solid food completely for 7-10 days each during the last three summers.
First time i felt awful and my excriment was kinda weird during the early fast but later in and afterwards it was amazing, it was like flying. Then i kept myself in fairly good shape so the detox shock wasnt that severe the other 2 times. during the fasts i have used vegetable juices, fruit juices, tea and vegetable stock in hot water.
i bridged the fasts with youghurt and salads, before and after returning to solid food.

whatever you do the important thing is to phase into it, like decreasing size of your portions and eating lighter food

and a general tip regading eating that helps me alot is to put down the cutlery until i have chewed and swallowed each mouthful
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Ben
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Ben »

Gotama abandoned fasting during his pre-enlightenment quest. It is an austerity that is not conducive to liberation. Within my own tradition, fasting is forbidden during retreats. If you want a healthier relationship to food then it can't be achieved by going from one extreme to another.
kind regards

Ben
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Ben wrote:Gotama abandoned fasting during his pre-enlightenment quest. It is an austerity that is not conducive to liberation.
Even fasting should be practised in moderation.

Dhammadayāda Sutta

Now, monks, suppose that I had eaten, refused more food, had my fill, finished, had enough, had what I needed, and some alms-food was left over to be thrown away. Then two monks arrived hungry and weak, and I told them: ‘monks, I have eaten and have had all I needed, but there is this alms-food of mine left over to be thrown away. Eat it if you like; if you do not eat it then I shall throw it away where there is no greenery or drop it into water where there is no life.’ Then one monk thought: ‘the Blessed One has eaten and had what he needed, but there is this alms-food of the Blessed One left over to be thrown away; if we do not eat it the Blessed One will throw it away, but this has been said by the Blessed One: ‘monks, be my heirs in Dhamma, not my heirs in material things.’ Now this alms-food is one of the material things. Suppose that instead of eating this alms-food I pass the night and day hungry and weak.’

And instead of eating that alms-food he passed that night and day hungry and weak. Then the second monk thought: ‘the Blessed One has eaten and he has had all that he required, but there is this alms-food of the Blessed One left over to be thrown away. Suppose that I eat this alms-food and pass the night and day neither hungry nor weak.’ And after eating that alms-food he passed the night and day neither hungry nor weak. Now although that monk by eating that alms-food passed the night and day neither hungry nor weak, yet the first monk is more respected and commended by me. Why, because the will power that he has demonstrated shall contribute to the fewness of his wishes, contentment, effacement, easy support and arousal of energy. Therefore, monks, be my heirs in Dhamma, not my heirs in material things. Out of compassion for you I have thought: ‘how shall my disciples be my heirs in Dhamma, not my heirs in material things?’"
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cooran
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by cooran »

Hello Bhante,

Interesting sutta. The first half is by the Buddha, who then departs, and the second half is by Ven. Sariputta.
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ta-e1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta and respect,
Chris
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Goofaholix
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Goofaholix »

I've found doing a short fast of three days or so worth doing, I feel lighter and less bloated afterwards, I'm not sure it helps my meditation any but I think it helps my ability to persevere and reduces attachment.

It's a good idea to take enemas as this flushes the toxins out faster and reduces the headaches etc that come from too many toxins released too quickly

I don't think eating 3 square meals a day every day is the middle way, remember monks only have 1 or 2. I don't think it's natural either, animals often go for periods without food so why can't modern man.
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“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
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ground
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by ground »

In some sense attachment to fasting practice relates to wholesome and conducive eating like attachment to practice of jhana would relate to the 8fold path.

Kind regards
VeganLiz
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by VeganLiz »

An attachment to food, like you said, is very common.

Just a thought for you, I attempted to keep busy and try to think less about food...which resulted in me getting food on the go, less healthy foods. I think in this practice it's important to be mindful of what you're eating and ask your self how this food will better your body. I am not exactly the icon of health, in fact while I am in the healthy range of weight I'm very close to being over weight.

I have found that while fasting I get more emotional and more sleepy. After meditation I feel worn out. I suppose it is important to find out how much your body can take. I have done all vegetable fasts and I feel very grounded and content with that but it's still challenging. Juice fasts cause me to get a sugar rush. Water fasts are too hard for me. I wish I could do it. I've heard good things, so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong.
"My actions are my only true belongings." Thich Nhat Hanh
daverupa
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by daverupa »

SN 3.13:

Those who always dwell in mindfulness,
Observing measure in the food they eat,
Find that their discomfort grows the less.
Aging gently, life for them is long.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Annatar
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Annatar »

Bunjers wrote: I have a bit of an issue with attachment to food and greed. I am trying to combat this with mindful eating, and attempting to keep uposathas... I am trying to regain a healthier relationship with food. I want to find more time for dhamma practice and all the other important things in my life, instead of spending so much of my time cooking and eating.
Sounds a fine and very balanced approach.

With metta,
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Aloka
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Aloka »

I have done a 3 day fast drinking only mineral water. To be honest I didn't really feel any different.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by Kim OHara »

daverupa wrote:SN 3.13:

Those who always dwell in mindfulness,
Observing measure in the food they eat,
Find that their discomfort grows the less.
Aging gently, life for them is long.
:goodpost:

All things in moderation, including food - and thinking about food!
:namaste:
Kim
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ground
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Re: Fasting and frugality in food

Post by ground »

Aloka wrote:I have done a 3 day fast drinking only mineral water. To be honest I didn't really feel any different.
Perhaps you try additional 3 or 6 days? I mean if the aim is to feel different ...

Kind regards
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