Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

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Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:54 am

Greetings,

I was just reading the following and was interested in sharing it... and discussing, if anyone cares to.

Watch What You're Doing - Thanissaro Bhikkhu
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#watch

As per the subject heading, it's a guide on how one whose primary meditation object is the breath, can ask pertinent questions of their experience in order to drill down to the nature of human action (kamma/volition).

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:42 am

Thanks for that link Retro. That's an excellent teaching which I think has nothing much to do with which particular object one happens to be watching... I like his discussion on discerning intention, which is clearly vitally important.

:anjali:
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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby Goofaholix » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:04 pm

Exceptional, that's it in a nutshell, I wish I'd read an article like this 15 years ago.

A few uses of the word "complacent" in there Mike.

It also made me realise that "fabrication" is a much better word to use to describe everything we add to our experience, rather than the "conceptual reality" or "conventional reality" phrases I was using not so long ago.

I think there is more emphasis on cittanupassana than dhammanupassana though.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:37 pm

Goofaholix wrote:A few uses of the word "complacent" in there Mike.

Yes, that's partly why I also thought it was a great article. I was curious why Retro makes such a big deal of the breath. It seems to me that the whole point is that the object one is trying to follow is not special. As Steve Armstrong http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/170/ likes to say: You can do what you like, walk, sit, stand on your head. Doesn't matter as long as you watch the mind.

While I've noticed these subtle intentions that Ven T talks about from time to time, I probably haven't paid the attention to them that they deserve. Generally, I tend to think of intention as something I primarily observe when walking. So this is an excellent reminder to look for intention in the more subtle depths of the mind and not just the gross aspects.

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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby Goofaholix » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:51 pm

mikenz66 wrote:I was curious why Retro makes such a big deal of the breath. It seems to me that the whole point is that the object one is trying to follow is not special.


Lots of practitioners make a big deal about the breath (I wouldn't have thought Retro was one of them) it's the classic finger pointing at the moon scenario, you might recall seeing a thread I was involved in a week or two ago on this very topic.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby Sam Vara » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:08 pm

Agreed - this is an exceptional little article. One of those that I had read before, and thought, "OK, yes, I get it", and then moved on. I needed someone to place it in front of me again, in order to look more closely at it. It's often like that. Thank you for posting the link.

Can anyone suggest any Suttas which relate closely to what Ajahn Thanissaro was explaining?
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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:21 pm

Goofaholix wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:I was curious why Retro makes such a big deal of the breath. It seems to me that the whole point is that the object one is trying to follow is not special.


Lots of practitioners make a big deal about the breath (I wouldn't have thought Retro was one of them) it's the classic finger pointing at the moon scenario, you might recall seeing a thread I was involved in a week or two ago on this very topic.

Sure: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11055&p=168543#p168543

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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby Viscid » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:26 pm

Fantastic article, it really gets to the heart of the process. Thanks for sharing it.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:44 pm

Greetings,

mikenz66 wrote:I was curious why Retro makes such a big deal of the breath.

Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:The people listening to these talks were familiar with the meditation instructions included in "Method 2" in Keeping the Breath in Mind by Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo; and my own essay, "A Guided Meditation." If you are not familiar with these instructions, you might want to read through them before reading the talks in this book.

Source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#intro

Goofaholix wrote:Lots of practitioners make a big deal about the breath (I wouldn't have thought Retro was one of them)

Based on my learnings/observations re: the nature of sankhara, and the similar recognition of the significance of sankhara expressed in these talks by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, it's certainly increasing in its appeal. Anapanasati for the Dhammanupassana practitioner. :lol:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:21 am

Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:The people listening to these talks were familiar with the meditation instructions included in "Method 2" in Keeping the Breath in Mind by Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo; ...

Exactly. He mentions the breath in the talk because that's what the particular listeners are familiar with using, not because the message is about breath meditation in particular. Perhaps this seems a small point, but to me it's a really good talk that is saying that the particular meditation object is of secondary importance.

:anjali:
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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:54 am

Greetings Mike (and others),

In that case, I'm pleased you found it a useful talk.

:meditate:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:31 am

I have nothing to add specifically, although the other thread on Dhammanupassana was related and what I have posted here seams relevant to the discussion in this thread, particularly the recent two posts.


Re: Dhammanupassana in the Satipatthana Sutta Post by Cittasanto » 21 Jan 2012, 13:48 wrote:For me the breath is sort of like the back drop, or the movement of walking depending on the posture, it does become a very obvious representation of impermanence/uncertainty, particularly on retreat, then any of the four satipatthanas become far more noticeable within this perspective.

for day to day life I have found sense restraint far more beneficial outside of retreat structure, and can have a similar effect, it is just a matter of keeping up the practice....
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby amtross » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:34 pm

I'm still in the middle of reading it :coffee: , but it's a great article so far. I was wondering about this part:

The Buddha said discernment involves comprehending the process of fabrication, the process of action that's going on in the mind all the time. And all the basic building blocks of action are right here.


does anyone happen to have any good sutta references that talk about the relationship between discernment and fabrication? This seems to be getting right at the crux of the practice! :bow:

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Re: Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:52 pm

Greetings Amtross,

amtross wrote:does anyone happen to have any good sutta references that talk about the relationship between discernment and fabrication?

Any that deal with the subject of dependent origination.

In dependence upon avijja (opposite of vijja, knowledge/discernment) arise sankharas (fabrications/determinations).

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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