Dhammanupassana for the Anapanasati practitioner

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

I was just reading the following and was interested in sharing it... and discussing, if anyone cares to.

Watch What You're Doing - Thanissaro Bhikkhu
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#watch

As per the subject heading, it's a guide on how one whose primary meditation object is the breath, can ask pertinent questions of their experience in order to drill down to the nature of human action (kamma/volition).

Metta,
Retro.

[mikenz66]

Thanks for that link Retro. That's an excellent teaching which I think has nothing much to do with which particular object one happens to be watching... I like his discussion on discerning intention, which is clearly vitally important.


Mike

[Goofaholix]

Exceptional, that's it in a nutshell, I wish I'd read an article like this 15 years ago.

A few uses of the word "complacent" in there Mike.

It also made me realise that "fabrication" is a much better word to use to describe everything we add to our experience, rather than the "conceptual reality" or "conventional reality" phrases I was using not so long ago.

I think there is more emphasis on cittanupassana than dhammanupassana though.

[mikenz66]

A few uses of the word "complacent" in there Mike.

Yes, that's partly why I also thought it was a great article. I was curious why Retro makes such a big deal of the breath. It seems to me that the whole point is that the object one is trying to follow is not special. As Steve Armstrong http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/170/ likes to say: You can do what you like, walk, sit, stand on your head. Doesn't matter as long as you watch the mind.

While I've noticed these subtle intentions that Ven T talks about from time to time, I probably haven't paid the attention to them that they deserve. Generally, I tend to think of intention as something I primarily observe when walking. So this is an excellent reminder to look for intention in the more subtle depths of the mind and not just the gross aspects.


Mike

[Goofaholix]

I was curious why Retro makes such a big deal of the breath. It seems to me that the whole point is that the object one is trying to follow is not special.

Lots of practitioners make a big deal about the breath (I wouldn't have thought Retro was one of them) it's the classic finger pointing at the moon scenario, you might recall seeing a thread I was involved in a week or two ago on this very topic.

[Sam Vara]

Agreed - this is an exceptional little article. One of those that I had read before, and thought, "OK, yes, I get it", and then moved on. I needed someone to place it in front of me again, in order to look more closely at it. It's often like that. Thank you for posting the link.

Can anyone suggest any Suttas which relate closely to what Ajahn Thanissaro was explaining?

[mikenz66]

I was curious why Retro makes such a big deal of the breath. It seems to me that the whole point is that the object one is trying to follow is not special.

Lots of practitioners make a big deal about the breath (I wouldn't have thought Retro was one of them) it's the classic finger pointing at the moon scenario, you might recall seeing a thread I was involved in a week or two ago on this very topic.

Sure: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11055&p=168543#p168543


Mike

[Viscid]

Fantastic article, it really gets to the heart of the process. Thanks for sharing it.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

I was curious why Retro makes such a big deal of the breath.

The people listening to these talks were familiar with the meditation instructions included in "Method 2" in Keeping the Breath in Mind by Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo; and my own essay, "A Guided Meditation." If you are not familiar with these instructions, you might want to read through them before reading the talks in this book.

Source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#intro

Lots of practitioners make a big deal about the breath (I wouldn't have thought Retro was one of them)

Based on my learnings/observations re: the nature of sankhara, and the similar recognition of the significance of sankhara expressed in these talks by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, it's certainly increasing in its appeal. Anapanasati for the Dhammanupassana practitioner.

Metta,
Retro.

[mikenz66]

The people listening to these talks were familiar with the meditation instructions included in "Method 2" in Keeping the Breath in Mind by Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo; ...

Exactly. He mentions the breath in the talk because that's what the particular listeners are familiar with using, not because the message is about breath meditation in particular. Perhaps this seems a small point, but to me it's a really good talk that is saying that the particular meditation object is of secondary importance.


Mike

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Mike (and others),

In that case, I'm pleased you found it a useful talk.



Metta,
Retro.

[Cittasanto]

I have nothing to add specifically, although the other thread on Dhammanupassana was related and what I have posted here seams relevant to the discussion in this thread, particularly the recent two posts.

For me the breath is sort of like the back drop, or the movement of walking depending on the posture, it does become a very obvious representation of impermanence/uncertainty, particularly on retreat, then any of the four satipatthanas become far more noticeable within this perspective.

for day to day life I have found sense restraint far more beneficial outside of retreat structure, and can have a similar effect, it is just a matter of keeping up the practice....

[amtross]

I'm still in the middle of reading it , but it's a great article so far. I was wondering about this part:

The Buddha said discernment involves comprehending the process of fabrication, the process of action that's going on in the mind all the time. And all the basic building blocks of action are right here.

does anyone happen to have any good sutta references that talk about the relationship between discernment and fabrication? This seems to be getting right at the crux of the practice!

sean

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Amtross,

does anyone happen to have any good sutta references that talk about the relationship between discernment and fabrication?

Any that deal with the subject of dependent origination.

In dependence upon avijja (opposite of vijja, knowledge/discernment) arise sankharas (fabrications/determinations).

Metta,
Retro.