reflection - a goal oriented approach is very much suggested by the buddha, 'practice like your hair is on fire' for example. he talks about how the tears you have cried are more than the water in the ocean, what could the intention of these statements be if not creating desire in the listeners for a release from suffering?
true, in the end letting go is of everything, fabricating nothing is the solution to suffering, but in the meantime, the path is fabricated, the jhanas are created through directed thought and evaluation, right effort, right intention, right resolve... i would prefer not to debate this, but it is important to consider that things are not nearly as simple as you have implied. the advice of letting go is only one part of one of the 4 noble truths, it's what you do when you only when you fully understand the cause of suffering... i doubt you will make practice in concentration or the path with the attitude that you have taken.
we would like to hear the advice that the path is all letting go and not trying, but the habits of suffering are deeply ingrained in us and we really do need effort to understand these processes and change them.
when i say all this, i don't mean to imply that you ever, ever put effort into aversion, pushing things away is never the answer, but effort is needed to discern the causes of suffering, at which point you can do all the letting go you'd like. since you used that quote from ajahn chah - here is another.
I'll give you a simple comparison. Suppose you've bought a banana or a coconut in the market and you walk along carrying it. Someone asks you, "Why did you buy the banana?"
"I bought it to eat it."
"But do you have to eat the peel, too?"
"No."
"I don't believe you. If you're not going to eat the peel, why are you carrying it too?"
Or suppose you're carrying a coconut:
"Why are you carrying the coconut?"
"I'm carrying it home to make a curry."
"And you're going to curry the husk too?"
"No."
"Then why are you carrying it?"
So. How are you going to answer his question?
Through desire. If there's no desire, you can't give rise to ingenuity, to discernment.
That's the way it is as we make an effort in our meditation. Even though we do this through letting go, it's like the banana or the coconut: Why are you carrying the peel or the husk? Because the time hasn't come yet to throw it away. It's still protecting the inner flesh. The time hasn't come yet to throw it away, so you hold onto it for the time being.
The same with our practice: Suppositions and release have to be mixed together, just as the coconut has a husk mixed together with a shell and the flesh, so you carry them all together. If they accuse us of eating the coconut husk, so what? We know what we're doing.
On this board i see alot of talk about how non-goal oriented everyone is, rarely does anyone offer up their own explanation, favoring to drop in quick one-liners which would imply an unstated vast understanding. Is this merely a group charade? If no one puts forth their understanding, rather simply telling others that the understanding they have put forth is misguided, then eventually no one is willing to explain their views, because they know that they are entering into a very one-sided form of communication.
Perhaps people justify this with the tradition of silence about attainment, but you might notice that the world of the suttas was ABSOLUTELY NOT a culture of silence about understanding. The monks would constantly talk to one another, sincerely and openly sharing their understanding in the hopes that they could come to the end of suffering, something so much more valuable than the status as wise and accomplished.
I see little evidence that the participants here have a real interest in the unconditional happiness of nibbana or even a belief that such a thing is attainable. Nibbana is not a joke, i mentioned earlier that i had an experience which i
hypothesized could be what the end of suffering was
like. This was a functional experience, i was walking around after having sat, and if i know that this experience was the result of a *lack* of something rather than the intentional presence of something, which means it could be made permanent. Regardless of whether this was the end of suffering, i doubt that it was (its the closest i've come at least), i would literally give up everything in my life to attain it, this stuff is no joke guys, this stuff is way beyond praise and blame.
I will continue with my 'goal-oriented' practice down the dangerous road of jhana or at least concentration desiring the end of suffering, sincerely sharing my experiences (elsewhere) in the hopes that i can learn something. Other forum participants might continue to simply act in ways which they know are based in conceit and desire for status, and they may continue to inwardly deny these intentions so completely that they will never come to terms with them. In my practice my strongest asset has been samvega, it took alot of suffering and ignorance to build that force up, in the end i suppose it is up to you whether you wait for more or less samvega before you really start taking a walk down this path, fully committing to it and actually plunging in. There really can't be any holding back if you wish to make progress.
Sometimes the beneficial things are far from what we'd like to hear. I know that my mind is filthy with defilement, and I am likely at very near the same level of defilement and ignorance as of those who i am speaking to, but without the courage to admit that defilement existence you can't even begin to comprehend the first noble truth, and you will never move to the third, and this will continue until enough suffering drives you bat shit crazy and you desire the end of suffering - imagine that.
edit: ben - the reason i didn't appreciate your advice as compassionate and beneficial is that for me it wasn't. the teacher who's teachings i follow lives in California (thanissaro bhikkhu) and I live across the U.S. from him and I have nothing close to the financial means to go to California and talk with him in person. I would visit with a local teacher, but it seems that alot of buddhism in the U.S. at least is focused on developing a equanimous 'watcher' of experience, one dissociated and apart from experience, what they teach simply does not lead to the end of suffering, i actually did go to one of these teachers once, but they taught me all they could teach (they were convinced that they taught the end of suffering, and that I had achieved it) but what so much of the teachings here teach is something far from the end of suffering.
edit2: ben you said:
practice diligently under their guidance and focus instead on walking the path rather than exotic experiences.
what exactly are you practicing if jhana does not qualify as being part of the path?