Starting to nod off during meditation

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
Snufkin
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Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by Snufkin »

Had this problem for a little while, it doesn't happen every time I meditate, but it's started to be more frequent. I'll be following my breath, and then next minute I feel like I'm almost being nudged backwards and I realise I had stopped following my breath and started to nod off to sleep. This happens even when I'm not very tired. I try to renew my focus on breathing and continue, but it often happens again. It seems to have only started to happen when I increased my meditation time to 30 minutes.

Nothing in MIPE seems to really address the issue properly. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thank you.
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bodom
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by bodom »

Snufkin wrote:Nothing in MIPE seems to really address the issue properly.
Sure it does. See chapter 10:
Chapter 10

Problem 4

Drowsiness


...Drowsiness has certain definite characteristics. It does certain things to your thought process. Find out what. It has certain body feelings associated with it. Locate those.

This inquisitive awareness is the direct opposite of drowsiness, and will evaporate it. If it does not, then you should suspect a physical cause of your sleepiness...If you are very sleepy then take a deep breath and hold it as long as you can. Then breathe out slowly. Take another deep breath again, hold it as long as you can and breathe out slowly. Repeat this exercise until your body warms up and sleepiness fades away. Then return to your breath.
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe10.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Does anyone have any suggestions?
If this doesn't do the trick get up and do walking meditation.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
Snufkin
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by Snufkin »

Thanks for your reply, I did read that part, but I didn't find it to be very helpful, I've tried investigating it but it's over before I even realise it's happening, and the breathing technique works for a bit but then I seem to relapse.

I'll continue trying these techniques, as I don't have a lot of space to perform walking meditation, especially without disturbing others.
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bodom
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by bodom »

Snufkin wrote:Thanks for your reply, I did read that part, but I didn't find it to be very helpful, I've tried investigating it but it's over before I even realise it's happening, and the breathing technique works for a bit but then I seem to relapse.

I'll continue trying these techniques, as I don't have a lot of space to perform walking meditation, especially without disturbing others.
If you dont have much room for walking you can also do standing meditation or try a body sweeping exercise. Another option is sitting with your eyes open instead of closed. Best of luck to you!

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

Snufkin wrote:Thanks for your reply, I did read that part, but I didn't find it to be very helpful, I've tried investigating it but it's over before I even realise it's happening, and the breathing technique works for a bit but then I seem to relapse.

I'll continue trying these techniques, as I don't have a lot of space to perform walking meditation, especially without disturbing others.
As Bodom said, standing meditation sometimes helps.

You might want to check what time of the day you're meditating; if it is too early or too late, you might be tired. Sometimes right in the middle of the day is best, or early afternoon. But obviously that isn't reasonable for some people.

Also, a more active approach, like body scanning, is also a good idea.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
Snufkin
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by Snufkin »

I do tend to meditate around 11am - 1pm. So I can't see any reason for actually being worn out.
How would I go about body scanning? Thank you.
daverupa
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by daverupa »

Snufkin wrote:I do tend to meditate around 11am - 1pm. So I can't see any reason for actually being worn out.
Are you meditating after a meal? That can be a huge drowsiness-cause. What about sugary morning drinks? Such a drop in blood sugar might also contribute, if applicable. Also, see if boredom precedes the drowsiness...
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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tiltbillings
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by tiltbillings »

Snufkin wrote: Does anyone have any suggestions?
Meditate with your eyes wide open; meditate standing; do walking meditation; take a nap.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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marc108
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by marc108 »

It's normal to start to get a little drowsy as the mind becomes still, relaxing into the first half an hour or so of meditation is very similar to the process of going to sleep. Bhante G's suggestion, as posted above, to hold the breath works well for me. You can just stand up and continue practice as well. Keeping the lights on is usefull. I find that if I begin to practice Satipatthana on the drowsy state, concentrate on it and deconstruct it, it will usually lift as long as I'm not severely physically tired. When you're trying with intensity to catch and understand that hindrance, energy is aroused into investigation and you become very interested, which generally lifts the drowsiness. Directions for body scanning can be found in Ajahn Sucittos meditation manual in the hinderances section, under lethargy:
http://forestsanghapublications.org/vie ... 12&ref=vec" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
befriend
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by befriend »

put your hands over your head.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
Snufkin
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by Snufkin »

daverupa wrote:
Snufkin wrote:I do tend to meditate around 11am - 1pm. So I can't see any reason for actually being worn out.
Are you meditating after a meal? That can be a huge drowsiness-cause. What about sugary morning drinks? Such a drop in blood sugar might also contribute, if applicable. Also, see if boredom precedes the drowsiness...
I do tend to have breakfast sometime before hand, but just a couple of slices of toast, would this really have much effect?
marc108 wrote:It's normal to start to get a little drowsy as the mind becomes still, relaxing into the first half an hour or so of meditation is very similar to the process of going to sleep. Bhante G's suggestion, as posted above, to hold the breath works well for me. You can just stand up and continue practice as well. Keeping the lights on is usefull. I find that if I begin to practice Satipatthana on the drowsy state, concentrate on it and deconstruct it, it will usually lift as long as I'm not severely physically tired. When you're trying with intensity to catch and understand that hindrance, energy is aroused into investigation and you become very interested, which generally lifts the drowsiness. Directions for body scanning can be found in Ajahn Sucittos meditation manual in the hinderances section, under lethargy:
http://forestsanghapublications.org/vie ... 12&ref=vec" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'll definitely take a read and try this out, and also continue with the breath holding.

Thanks for the responses everyone.
Nyana
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by Nyana »

Snufkin wrote:Had this problem for a little while, it doesn't happen every time I meditate, but it's started to be more frequent. I'll be following my breath, and then next minute I feel like I'm almost being nudged backwards and I realise I had stopped following my breath and started to nod off to sleep. This happens even when I'm not very tired. I try to renew my focus on breathing and continue, but it often happens again. It seems to have only started to happen when I increased my meditation time to 30 minutes.

Nothing in MIPE seems to really address the issue properly. Does anyone have any suggestions?
It can be helpful to intentionally notice the mind's clarity at the beginning of a sitting period and then remaining attentive to sustaining that clarity. It can also be helpful in this regard to keep sitting periods short, and take a short break between sits.

The suttas offer a number of antidotes such as attending to a perception of light, or engaging in walking meditation, or reciting suttas (either silently or out loud), etc. For example, see AN 7.58.
daverupa
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by daverupa »

Ñāṇa wrote:take a short break between sits
Am I correct to find that descriptions in the Suttas suggest "walking up and down" (imo, more appropriately "a period of sampajañña") interspersed throughout ānāpānasati? Perhaps only during the day, while longer periods bracketed the middle watch of the night...?
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Ben
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by Ben »

Greetings Snufkin,

The vast majority of experienced meditation practitioners are not only familiar, but intimately familiar with the hindrances and their own battles to overcome them. They are hindrances because they are difficult, but not impossible to overcome. And in one respect, they are an indication of some progress.

I hope the following publication will be of interest, if not help, to you.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el026.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
kind regards,

Ben
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
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monkey_brain
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Re: Starting to nod off during meditation

Post by monkey_brain »

Just a hopeful note from my own (still immature) practice. Sleepiness/drowsiness was the most common issue in the first 4-6 months of my sitting practice. Now, 18 months into it, it is an extremely uncommon guest. Nor did I really do or change anything that might have been a "solution" to it. It just gradually went away on its own. Since then, there have been other "problems" that came for awhile, and then took themselves off. Not to play down any of the good advice already given, but also I think sometimes problems just take care of themselves if you give them some time.

Wishing you the best,
Paul J.
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