Eyes

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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greggorious
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Eyes

Post by greggorious »

Why is it in Theravada it's more common to close the eyes and in Mayahana it's more common to have the eyes open, or half open?
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Eyes

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

The difference btween Theravada and Soto Zen is simply that the latter isn't intent on developing one-pointed concentration but rather an abiding within the present moment. As far as other Mahayana traditions go though I'm not sure. Good luck in your search. :anjali:
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
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greggorious
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Re: Eyes

Post by greggorious »

How did you know I was practicing soto zen? :)

I kind of knew the answer to my question within myself but wanted to know what you thought. Saying this I do do Vipassana as well as zazen.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah
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bodom
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Re: Eyes

Post by bodom »

greggorious wrote:Why is it in Theravada it's more common to close the eyes and in Mayahana it's more common to have the eyes open, or half open?
I think its a matter of preference for the individual meditator more so than a matter of tradition. I have read of Theravadan teachers who recommend keeping the eyes open in meditation and have read Zen teachers who say there is nothing wrong with sitting with eyes closed. I myself often sit with eyes half open to ward off drowsiness. Its best for each person to find what suits them rather than going by some hard and fast rule.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
greggorious
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Re: Eyes

Post by greggorious »

Thanks Bodom, I practice Zen but I am influenced by Theravada too. In fact I see more in common with theravada than with other Mayahana school, maybe I'm alone in that?

Most Zennists I know I quite strict with eyes open. When at the zendo I follow tradition, when at home I'll close my eyes cos I find it too distracting with eyes open.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah
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bodom
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Re: Eyes

Post by bodom »

greggorious wrote:Thanks Bodom, I practice Zen but I am influenced by Theravada too.


And I am a practicing "Theravadan" with a strong influence from the Zen tradition. :smile: :sage:
In fact I see more in common with theravada than with other Mayahana school..
I as well. When sitting on the cushion I see no difference between my current vipassana practice and my former zazen practice. I am not concerned with the petty doctrinal disputes as I am with the actual practice of Buddhadhamma.
Most Zennists I know I quite strict with eyes open. When at the zendo I follow tradition, when at home I'll close my eyes cos I find it too distracting with eyes open.
Whatever suits you. The important point in meditation is watching the body/mind process rather than the wall/floor in front of you or the backs of the eyelids.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Eyes

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

Buddhadasa often told his students to meditate with eyes open as well. I prefer closed but I don't think it's all too important really.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Kamran
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Re: Eyes

Post by Kamran »

The only difference between my previous "Zazen" practice, and my current "Vipassasana" practice I see is the huge amount of free resources available in theravada to help me progress :)
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Cittasanto
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Re: Eyes

Post by Cittasanto »

hi greg
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 95#p123995" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
you told us all you practiced soto zen :)

I often find it depends on the sitting not just drowsiness, but how comfortable it is to fully close my eyes, although some teachers say gently close, i.e. not fully closed yet not half open.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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black hole
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Re: Eyes

Post by black hole »

Some people say when you close yours eyes it's like a wall that would be very close: if you throw a ball against the wall it returns immediately and it is difficult to control. It would happen the same with thoughts. Hey, this is an explanation ... I have not found very persuasive by experimenting... :thinking:
Now, if you keep your eyes open and fix a point about 30cm in front of you in space, you will see that:
1. it is not easy
2. it helps to focus significantly
Finally, other explanations are related to channels and energy which would be connected to the eyes. By keeping your eyes open, we allow this energy to mix with the space. You connect the inner space to outer space. it greatly facilitates the overcoming of the feeling of ego.
That said, those who lean in favor of closed eyes have certainly arguments even more convincing.
The most interesting is perhaps the question at a time: why I like to meditate eyes open (or closed) ... And change
Everything is naturally perfect just as it is
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