Some questions on anapanasati sutta

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Some questions on anapanasati sutta

Postby barcsimalsi » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:21 pm

Anapanasati...
"[5] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.' [6] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.' [7] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.' [8] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'

Why it only mention pleasant feeling and not all feeling?

"[9] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.' [10] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out satisfying the mind.' [11] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind.' [12] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'

What is the different between 8, 10, 11 & 12?
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Re: Some questions on anapanasati sutta

Postby kirk5a » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:04 pm

barcsimalsi wrote:Anapanasati...
"[5] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.' [6] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.' [7] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.' [8] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'

Why it only mention pleasant feeling and not all feeling?


Release has its prerequisite, I tell you. It is not without a prerequisite. And what is its prerequisite? Dispassion... Disenchantment... Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are present... Concentration... Pleasure... Serenity... Rapture... Joy... Conviction

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Some questions on anapanasati sutta

Postby barcsimalsi » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:24 pm

So what to do if pleasant feeling does not arise?
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Re: Some questions on anapanasati sutta

Postby kirk5a » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:40 pm

barcsimalsi wrote:So what to do if pleasant feeling does not arise?

I would say make sure you are following the precepts, take refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha to arouse a sense of faith, and then start with learning to breathe "comfortably."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... ml#method2
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Some questions on anapanasati sutta

Postby daverupa » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:05 pm

barcsimalsi wrote:[5] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.'
[6] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.'
[7] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.'
[8] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'

"[9] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.'
[10] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out satisfying the mind.'
[11] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind.'
[12] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'


It would probably be useful for the board to discuss the difference between [7] and [9].

:popcorn:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Some questions on anapanasati sutta

Postby santa100 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:25 pm

Stage VII (Second Tetrad) and mental formation definition is explained on page 432-445 versus Stage IX (Third Tetrad) page 454-465 of http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/anapanasati.pdf

The analysis is quite extensive but the general sense is that the mental formation (perception and feeling) in the Second Tetrad is what conditions the mind (in the Third Tetrad). However, "the meditator who has reached the present Ninth Stage should note the state of the mind while practising each of the preceding eight stages. He has to begin anew from the very First Stage and successively proceed to the Eighth Stage, noting in each the state fo the mind." (page 459)
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Re: Some questions on anapanasati sutta

Postby daverupa » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:10 pm

This paper by Ven. Analayo offers some interesting discussion ahead of his upcoming book discussing the Agama parallels in detail.

Of note in this context are some difficulties with the Visuddhimagga's presentation, along with the following:

Yet, judging from the overall dynamics of the sixteenfold scheme, the original intent of this exposition may well have been a broadening of awareness, which proceeds from awareness of the breath to awareness of the whole physical body, of feelings [7], and of the condition of the mind [9]; a broadening of awareness that eventually leads up to awareness of impermanence and so on in regard to any phenomena that may come within the scope of meditative awareness.


In addition to differing on the final tetrad, the Samyutta Nikaya and Samyuktagama versions are also at variance when it comes to explaining the correlation of the four tetrads with the four satipatthanas... Thus the explanations offered in the Samyuktagama version for correlating the second to fourth tetad of mindflness of breathing with the second to fourth satipatthana seem more straightforward than their Pali counterparts.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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