Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
Let’s say someone is doing insight meditation, and one becomes aware of a root to a hindrance through one’s presently active sense of discernment. If one imagines that the root being observed is a red, hot, burning piece of coal, and the breath is like pouring water onto the burning piece of coal that completely puts it out in one’s imagination, will this meditative process effectively put a real end to the root of that hindrance if one simultaneously ties to this imagined imagery one’s belief that it is truly happening?
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
If only at times this imagined imagery during one’s meditation of putting out the burning coals of the roots of the hindrances with imagined water actually works, but at other times it does not, does this cancel out this particular meditative practice as being a an illegitimate technique? Or does it merely indicate that one’s belief in its effectiveness is not genuinely applied adequately enough when it fails to deliver the desired results?
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
- tiltbillings
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Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
And we should believe that why?All joking aside, now...
Imagined imagery is not vipassana. It is imagined imagery.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
Because the question that I asked was serious. If you have a personal problem with me, though, why don't you address me personally in a private message. If you have a serious answer or input to the subject matter of this thread, then by all means, please share what you have to say.tiltbillings wrote:And we should believe that why?All joking aside, now...
Imagined imagery is not vipassana. It is imagined imagery.
It is quite clear when I have made threads that were meant to be humorous, unless of course the reader is just so completely humorless that they are not able to recognize such things.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
The problem is while people have tried to deal with you seriously you clowned around publicly in response to their well-meaning attempts at trying to deal with you seriously, and your signature raises the question - publicly. Once bitten twice shy.flyingOx wrote:All joking aside, now...
Because the question that I asked was serious. If you have a personal problem with me, though, why don't you address me personally in a private message.
That would be just about - if not - all the responders to your previous two threads of clowning around msgs, and you treated them shabbily with your clowning around and this comment of yours does not help. If you are now, in fact, serious, then let us move on, but do take some responsibility for your previous - at best - questionable behavior.It is quite clear when I have made threads that were meant to be humorous, unless of course the reader is just so completely humorless that they are not able to recognize such things.
You were given a serious answer to your question: Imagined imagery is not vipassana. It is imagined imagery.If you have a serious answer or input to the subject matter of this thread, then by all means, please share what you have to say.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
Wasnt very nice if you lied in the other threads and tricked others for your own amusement. Plus it can lead to a situation of "the boy who cried wolf"
metta
metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
What would you like me to say,then, tiltbillings? Let's see:
No, I am not enlightened.
Yes, I have clowned around.
Yes, I thought it was obvious.
Do I like YOU, tilt? No, I don't.
Do I think that a lot of Buddhists go around acting like stuck up, know it all snobs? Yes, I do.
Am I considering not ever wanting to talk to another Buddhist again, because of it. MAYBE! TILT...It HAS come across my mind more than once.
I left the Christian faith because I thought that they were too arrogant, but by and large, Buddhism has them beat at it, if you ask me. I haven't run into so many stuck up jerks in my life, to be honest with you.
NOW, do I apprecieate and find a lot of peace and love in Buddha's writings, yes I do, but I'm not so sure that Buddhism is the right place for me, even still. The ball is on your side of the court, buddy.
No, I am not enlightened.
Yes, I have clowned around.
Yes, I thought it was obvious.
Do I like YOU, tilt? No, I don't.
Do I think that a lot of Buddhists go around acting like stuck up, know it all snobs? Yes, I do.
Am I considering not ever wanting to talk to another Buddhist again, because of it. MAYBE! TILT...It HAS come across my mind more than once.
I left the Christian faith because I thought that they were too arrogant, but by and large, Buddhism has them beat at it, if you ask me. I haven't run into so many stuck up jerks in my life, to be honest with you.
NOW, do I apprecieate and find a lot of peace and love in Buddha's writings, yes I do, but I'm not so sure that Buddhism is the right place for me, even still. The ball is on your side of the court, buddy.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
So you lied to everyone, not very kind of youNo, I am not enlightened.
Humour is good but not at other peoples expense, which is what you have attempted to do hereYes, I have clowned around.
MettaDo I like YOU, tilt? No, I don't.
A lot of what was said was to try and help you because they thought you were ill, however you lied and played games with themDo I think that a lot of Buddhists go around acting like stuck up, know it all snobs? Yes, I do.
Honesty is liked in buddhist circles, lying as you have done wouldnt be welcomed. In Buddhism lying, even for "jokes" isnt seen as wholesomeAm I considering not ever wanting to talk to another Buddhist again, because of it. MAYBE! TILT...It HAS come across my mind more than once.
Then why dont you put it into practice for your own benefit and for others instead of lying and trying to make fools of those who offer help and compassion?NOW, do I apprecieate and find a lot of peace and love in Buddha's writings, yes I do, but I'm not so sure that Buddhism is the right place for me, even still.
metta friend
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
You are still blaming others for your bad behavior. If you are going to really get something out of Buddhism, that probably is not the way to do it. That others may act badly is not the point; the point is taking responsibility for your behavior and the consequences of that behavior. That is between you and you. Just don't expect people who have been burned by your behavior not to be wary, especially when rather than an apology one gets from you a self justification rant.flyingOx wrote:What would you like me to say,then, tiltbillings? Let's see:
No, I am not enlightened.
Yes, I have clowned around.
Yes, I thought it was obvious.
Do I like YOU, tilt? No, I don't.
Do I think that a lot of Buddhists go around acting like stuck up, know it all snobs? Yes, I do.
Am I considering not ever wanting to talk to another Buddhist again, because of it. MAYBE! TILT...It HAS come across my mind more than once.
I left the Christian faith because I thought that they were too arrogant, but by and large, Buddhism has them beat at it, if you ask me. I haven't run into so many stuck up jerks in my life, to be honest with you.
NOW, do I apprecieate and find a lot of peace and love in Buddha's writings, yes I do, but I'm not so sure that Buddhism is the right place for me, even still. The ball is on your side of the court, buddy.
Now, if you are serious about the question, let us move on.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
I don't like you Tilt, I don't want to move on with any conversation with you. PERIOD. You are a jerk. I will not talk to someone so hateful.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
Telling someone that they are psychologically ill because of the way that they believe spiritually is not being helpful.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
flyingOx wrote:Telling someone that they are psychologically ill because of the way that they believe spiritually is not being helpful.
Neither is lying to pretend to be something your not and continue on with it even when others show concern for you
If you didnt find it helpful when people thought you were ill because you claimed to be enlightened why didnt you just come clean and admit it was a joke instead of carrying on with it?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
No. As Tilt has inferred, imagination is not seeing things as they really are (vipassana).flyingOx wrote:Let’s say someone is doing insight meditation, and one becomes aware of a root to a hindrance through one’s presently active sense of discernment. If one imagines that the root being observed is a red, hot, burning piece of coal, and the breath is like pouring water onto the burning piece of coal that completely puts it out in one’s imagination, will this meditative process effectively put a real end to the root of that hindrance if one simultaneously ties to this imagined imagery one’s belief that it is truly happening?
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
When I first became successful at producing my own jhana and higher subtle states, I thought that I WAS enlightened. I don't know if I was or not, now. Too many people have made me question it. As far as everything else, I was just joking, and I thought that it was obvious.clw_uk wrote:flyingOx wrote:Telling someone that they are psychologically ill because of the way that they believe spiritually is not being helpful.
Neither is lying to pretend to be something your not and continue on with it even when others show concern for you
If you didnt find it helpful when people thought you were ill because you claimed to be enlightened why didnt you just come clean and admit it was a joke instead of carrying on with it?
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation
I see. But if one actually DOES see the root of a hindrance, is it not permissable to also imagine them being put out as with water?Ben wrote:No. As Tilt has inferred, imagination is not seeing things as they really are (vipassana).flyingOx wrote:Let’s say someone is doing insight meditation, and one becomes aware of a root to a hindrance through one’s presently active sense of discernment. If one imagines that the root being observed is a red, hot, burning piece of coal, and the breath is like pouring water onto the burning piece of coal that completely puts it out in one’s imagination, will this meditative process effectively put a real end to the root of that hindrance if one simultaneously ties to this imagined imagery one’s belief that it is truly happening?
Ben
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.