16 step meditation

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
SarathW
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16 step meditation

Postby SarathW » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:11 am

I listened to the following sermon by Ven. Thannisaro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4NR3nn4nfM

Can some one give me the sutta reference?
or
Can you provide the text relating to this sermon?
:anjali:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Sam Vara
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Re: 16 step meditation

Postby Sam Vara » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:00 pm

Is this not Ajahn Thanissaro's interpretation of MN 118

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html

The Anapanasati Sutta? The ATI version I have linked gives the 4 tetrads. He does bring in material from other Suttas, but this is the basic framework.

SarathW
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Re: 16 step meditation

Postby SarathW » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:16 pm

Thanks Sam.
=============
Can I compare the Seven Factors for Awakening with Five Factors of Jhana as follows.

1)Mindfulness = Vitakka
2)Analysis of qualities = Vitakka
3)Persistence = Vikara
4)Rapture = Piti
5)Serinity = Sukaha
6)Concentraton = Ekagata
7) Equanimity = ?
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Cittasanto
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Re: 16 step meditation

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:28 pm

It is the Anapanasati Sutta, Maybe the first two of Ajahn's treatises found here may help.
If you look at the "Thai Forest Ajahns" section the fifth Book may also be relevant.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Cittasanto
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Re: 16 step meditation

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:34 pm

SarathW wrote:Thanks Sam.
=============
Can I compare the Seven Factors for Awakening with Five Factors of Jhana as follows.

1)Mindfulness = Vitakka
2)Analysis of qualities = Vitakka
3)Persistence = Vikara
4)Rapture = Piti
5)Serinity = Sukaha
6)Concentraton = Ekagata
7) Equanimity = ?
:thinking:

The fourth Jhana is characterised by Mindfulness due to Equanimity according to the texts if I remember correctly.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

culaavuso
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Re: 16 step meditation

Postby culaavuso » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:40 pm

SarathW wrote:Can I compare the Seven Factors for Awakening with Five Factors of Jhana as follows.

1)Mindfulness = Vitakka
2)Analysis of qualities = Vitakka
3)Persistence = Vikara
4)Rapture = Piti
5)Serinity = Sukaha
6)Concentraton = Ekagata
7) Equanimity = ?


It seems that there is significant overlap between the two sets but they are not entirely equivalent on an item for item basis. However, Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu does say that the equanimity of the seven factors is equivalent to the equanimity of the fourth Jhana.

Wings to Awakening: Part II (G): The Seven Factors for Awakening by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu
Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:The seven factors for Awakening (bojjhanga) are closely related to the practice of the four frames of reference. The texts use two patterns to describe this relationship. The first pattern is a spiral, showing how the seven factors for Awakening build on the four frames of reference [§92]. This point is reflected in the position of mindfulness — defined as the practice of any one of the four frames of reference — as the first factor in the list. Discernment, in the role of the analysis of mental qualities into skillful and unskillful, builds on right mindfulness and leads to persistence, which in the form of right effort/exertion maximizes the skillful qualities and minimizes the unskillful ones. This in turn leads to four factors associated with jhāna: rapture, serenity, concentration, and equanimity. Equanimity, here, is not a neutral feeling, but rather a balancing or moderation — an evenness of mind — with regard to any feeling or object that arises. It is identical with the equanimity in the fourth jhāna [§149] and with the inherent equanimity in the fifth factor of five-factored noble concentration [§150], which can develop out of any of the four jhanas. As such it can lead either to greater mastery of meditation — as the purity of mindfulness that accompanies the fourth jhāna provides the basis for even more precise analysis of qualities, thus allowing the causal loop to spiral to a higher level — or to the state of non-fashioning that opens to Awakening.

culaavuso
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Re: 16 step meditation

Postby culaavuso » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:06 am

If you find Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu's 16 step instructions helpful, you might be interested in some of his other talks about the topic:

The collection of talks suggested to accompany his book With Each and Every Breath includes the following set of talks:

Talks on the Buddha’s sixteen-step instructions in breath meditation:
2002/11: The Steps of Breath Meditation
2007/7/16: Lessons in Happiness
2008/2/11: On the Path of the Breath
2010/10/2: The Breath All the Way
2011/8/29: Exploring Fabrication
2012/2/3: Breath, Tranquility, & Insight

SarathW
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Re: 16 step meditation

Postby SarathW » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:12 am

Thanks
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Spiny Norman
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Re: 16 step meditation

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:41 am

SarathW wrote:Thanks Sam.
=============
Can I compare the Seven Factors for Awakening with Five Factors of Jhana as follows.

1)Mindfulness = Vitakka
2)Analysis of qualities = Vitakka
3)Persistence = Vikara
4)Rapture = Piti
5)Serinity = Sukaha
6)Concentraton = Ekagata
7) Equanimity = ?
:thinking:


Yes, I've noticed a strong correlation, which to me suggests that development of jhana is an important aspect of practice. I also find the order of development interesting - in the 7 factors it looks like insight is the foundation for samadhi, whereas in the 4 tetrads the reverse seems to be true ( depending on which interpretation one favours! ).
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

SarathW
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Re: 16 step meditation

Postby SarathW » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:18 am

culaavuso wrote:If you find Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu's 16 step instructions helpful, you might be interested in some of his other talks about the topic:

The collection of talks suggested to accompany his book With Each and Every Breath includes the following set of talks:

Talks on the Buddha’s sixteen-step instructions in breath meditation:
2002/11: The Steps of Breath Meditation
2007/7/16: Lessons in Happiness
2008/2/11: On the Path of the Breath
2010/10/2: The Breath All the Way
2011/8/29: Exploring Fabrication
2012/2/3: Breath, Tranquility, & Insight


Thanks.
"With Each and Every Breath" is a great article.
:reading:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”


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