Can anyone show me where these hundreds of brahma vihara meditation instructions are found in the suttas? People say he taught the BV's the most however the most detailed meditation instruction we have in the suttas is from the anapanasati. Are there many suttas that give detailed instruction for let's say Uhm..., metta meditation for example?
Kind regards
Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly without?
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badscooter
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
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dhammarelax
- Posts: 1087
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
Hi
The most detailed I found is (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el007.html) :
11. Methodical Practice: from the Patisambhidamagga (traditionally ascribed to the arahant Sariputta)
The heart-deliverance of loving-kindness is practiced with unspecified extension, with specified extension, and with directional extension.
That with unspecified extension is practiced in five ways as follows: May all beings be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
May all breathing things... all creatures... all persons... May all those who are embodied be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
That with specified extension is practiced in seven ways as follows: May all women be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss. May all men... all Noble Ones... all who are not Noble Ones... all deities... all human beings... may all those in the states of deprivation be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
That with directional extension is practiced in ten ways as follows:
May all beings in the eastern direction be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss. May all beings in the western direction... in the northern direction... in the southern direction... in the eastern intermediate direction... in the western intermediate direction... in the northern intermediate direction... in the southern intermediate direction... in the downward direction... May all those in the upward direction be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
May all breathing things...
May all creatures...
May all persons...
May all who are embodied...
May all women...
May all men...
May all Noble Ones...
May all who are not Noble Ones...
May all deities...
May all human beings...
May all those in the states of deprivation in the eastern direction be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss... May all those in states of deprivation in the upward direction be freed from enmity, distress, anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
In addition:
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el007.html you can find references and instructions for the Brahamaviharas, also the Path of Purification gives detailed instructions on them: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf.
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html we read:
"Thus you should train yourselves: 'Our awareness-release through good-will will be cultivated, developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, & well-undertaken. That's how you should train yourselves."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"There is the case where an individual keeps pervading the first direction[1] — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with good will. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will. He savors that, longs for that, finds satisfaction through that. Staying there — fixed on that, dwelling there often, not falling away from that — then when he dies he reappears in conjunction with the devas of Brahma's retinue. The devas of Brahma's retinue, monks, have a life-span of an eon. A run-of-the-mill person having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, goes to hell, to the animal womb, to the state of the hungry shades. But a disciple of the Blessed One, having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, is unbound right in that state of being. This, monks, is the difference, this the distinction, this the distinguishing factor, between an educated disciple of the noble ones and an uneducated run-of-the-mill person, when there is a destination, a reappearing." (Unbound means released)
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"Then you should train yourself thus: 'Good-will, as my awareness-release, will be developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, & well-undertaken.' That's how you should train yourself. When you have developed this concentration in this way, you should develop this concentration with directed thought & evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & a modicum of evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & no evaluation, you should develop it accompanied by rapture... not accompanied by rapture... endowed with a sense of enjoyment; you should develop it endowed with equanimity.
and
"When this concentration is thus developed, thus well-developed by you, you should then train yourself thus: 'I will remain focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.' That's how you should train yourself. When you have developed this concentration in this way, you should develop this concentration with directed thought & evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & a modicum of evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & no evaluation, you should develop it accompanied by rapture... not accompanied by rapture... endowed with a sense of enjoyment; you should develop it endowed with equanimity."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html :
"There is the case where an individual keeps pervading the first direction[1] — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with good will. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will. He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. At the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in conjunction with the devas of the Pure Abodes. This rebirth is not in common with run-of-the-mill people."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .html#fn-1
"That disciple of the noble ones — thus devoid of covetousness, devoid of ill will, unbewildered, alert, mindful — keeps pervading the first direction[2] with an awareness imbued with good will, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth. Thus above, below, & all around, everywhere, in its entirety, he keeps pervading the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, without hostility, without ill will. He discerns, 'Before, this mind of mine was limited & undeveloped. But now this mind of mine is immeasurable & well developed. And whatever action that was done in a measurable way does not remain there, does not linger there."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... html#khp-9
Think: Happy, at rest, may all beings be happy at heart. Whatever beings there may be, weak or strong, without exception, long, large, middling, short, subtle, blatant, seen & unseen, near & far, born & seeking birth: May all beings be happy at heart.
Smile all the time
dhammarelax
The most detailed I found is (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el007.html) :
11. Methodical Practice: from the Patisambhidamagga (traditionally ascribed to the arahant Sariputta)
The heart-deliverance of loving-kindness is practiced with unspecified extension, with specified extension, and with directional extension.
That with unspecified extension is practiced in five ways as follows: May all beings be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
May all breathing things... all creatures... all persons... May all those who are embodied be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
That with specified extension is practiced in seven ways as follows: May all women be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss. May all men... all Noble Ones... all who are not Noble Ones... all deities... all human beings... may all those in the states of deprivation be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
That with directional extension is practiced in ten ways as follows:
May all beings in the eastern direction be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss. May all beings in the western direction... in the northern direction... in the southern direction... in the eastern intermediate direction... in the western intermediate direction... in the northern intermediate direction... in the southern intermediate direction... in the downward direction... May all those in the upward direction be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
May all breathing things...
May all creatures...
May all persons...
May all who are embodied...
May all women...
May all men...
May all Noble Ones...
May all who are not Noble Ones...
May all deities...
May all human beings...
May all those in the states of deprivation in the eastern direction be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss... May all those in states of deprivation in the upward direction be freed from enmity, distress, anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
In addition:
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el007.html you can find references and instructions for the Brahamaviharas, also the Path of Purification gives detailed instructions on them: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf.
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html we read:
"Thus you should train yourselves: 'Our awareness-release through good-will will be cultivated, developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, & well-undertaken. That's how you should train yourselves."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"There is the case where an individual keeps pervading the first direction[1] — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with good will. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will. He savors that, longs for that, finds satisfaction through that. Staying there — fixed on that, dwelling there often, not falling away from that — then when he dies he reappears in conjunction with the devas of Brahma's retinue. The devas of Brahma's retinue, monks, have a life-span of an eon. A run-of-the-mill person having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, goes to hell, to the animal womb, to the state of the hungry shades. But a disciple of the Blessed One, having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, is unbound right in that state of being. This, monks, is the difference, this the distinction, this the distinguishing factor, between an educated disciple of the noble ones and an uneducated run-of-the-mill person, when there is a destination, a reappearing." (Unbound means released)
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"Then you should train yourself thus: 'Good-will, as my awareness-release, will be developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, & well-undertaken.' That's how you should train yourself. When you have developed this concentration in this way, you should develop this concentration with directed thought & evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & a modicum of evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & no evaluation, you should develop it accompanied by rapture... not accompanied by rapture... endowed with a sense of enjoyment; you should develop it endowed with equanimity.
and
"When this concentration is thus developed, thus well-developed by you, you should then train yourself thus: 'I will remain focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.' That's how you should train yourself. When you have developed this concentration in this way, you should develop this concentration with directed thought & evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & a modicum of evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & no evaluation, you should develop it accompanied by rapture... not accompanied by rapture... endowed with a sense of enjoyment; you should develop it endowed with equanimity."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html :
"There is the case where an individual keeps pervading the first direction[1] — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with good will. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will. He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. At the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in conjunction with the devas of the Pure Abodes. This rebirth is not in common with run-of-the-mill people."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .html#fn-1
"That disciple of the noble ones — thus devoid of covetousness, devoid of ill will, unbewildered, alert, mindful — keeps pervading the first direction[2] with an awareness imbued with good will, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth. Thus above, below, & all around, everywhere, in its entirety, he keeps pervading the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, without hostility, without ill will. He discerns, 'Before, this mind of mine was limited & undeveloped. But now this mind of mine is immeasurable & well developed. And whatever action that was done in a measurable way does not remain there, does not linger there."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... html#khp-9
Think: Happy, at rest, may all beings be happy at heart. Whatever beings there may be, weak or strong, without exception, long, large, middling, short, subtle, blatant, seen & unseen, near & far, born & seeking birth: May all beings be happy at heart.
Smile all the time
dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5
Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
dhammarelax,
How do you do metta meditation? I'd be interested to hear the details of what you do when you sit down to meditate.
How do you do metta meditation? I'd be interested to hear the details of what you do when you sit down to meditate.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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badscooter
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:07 am
- Location: New Jersey
Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
thanks,dhammarelax wrote:Hi
The most detailed I found is (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el007.html) :
11. Methodical Practice: from the Patisambhidamagga (traditionally ascribed to the arahant Sariputta)
The heart-deliverance of loving-kindness is practiced with unspecified extension, with specified extension, and with directional extension.
That with unspecified extension is practiced in five ways as follows: May all beings be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
May all breathing things... all creatures... all persons... May all those who are embodied be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
That with specified extension is practiced in seven ways as follows: May all women be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss. May all men... all Noble Ones... all who are not Noble Ones... all deities... all human beings... may all those in the states of deprivation be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
That with directional extension is practiced in ten ways as follows:
May all beings in the eastern direction be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss. May all beings in the western direction... in the northern direction... in the southern direction... in the eastern intermediate direction... in the western intermediate direction... in the northern intermediate direction... in the southern intermediate direction... in the downward direction... May all those in the upward direction be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
May all breathing things...
May all creatures...
May all persons...
May all who are embodied...
May all women...
May all men...
May all Noble Ones...
May all who are not Noble Ones...
May all deities...
May all human beings...
May all those in the states of deprivation in the eastern direction be freed from enmity, distress and anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss... May all those in states of deprivation in the upward direction be freed from enmity, distress, anxiety, and may they guide themselves to bliss.
In addition:
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el007.html you can find references and instructions for the Brahamaviharas, also the Path of Purification gives detailed instructions on them: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf.
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html we read:
"Thus you should train yourselves: 'Our awareness-release through good-will will be cultivated, developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, & well-undertaken. That's how you should train yourselves."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"There is the case where an individual keeps pervading the first direction[1] — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with good will. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will. He savors that, longs for that, finds satisfaction through that. Staying there — fixed on that, dwelling there often, not falling away from that — then when he dies he reappears in conjunction with the devas of Brahma's retinue. The devas of Brahma's retinue, monks, have a life-span of an eon. A run-of-the-mill person having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, goes to hell, to the animal womb, to the state of the hungry shades. But a disciple of the Blessed One, having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, is unbound right in that state of being. This, monks, is the difference, this the distinction, this the distinguishing factor, between an educated disciple of the noble ones and an uneducated run-of-the-mill person, when there is a destination, a reappearing." (Unbound means released)
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"Then you should train yourself thus: 'Good-will, as my awareness-release, will be developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, & well-undertaken.' That's how you should train yourself. When you have developed this concentration in this way, you should develop this concentration with directed thought & evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & a modicum of evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & no evaluation, you should develop it accompanied by rapture... not accompanied by rapture... endowed with a sense of enjoyment; you should develop it endowed with equanimity.
and
"When this concentration is thus developed, thus well-developed by you, you should then train yourself thus: 'I will remain focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.' That's how you should train yourself. When you have developed this concentration in this way, you should develop this concentration with directed thought & evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & a modicum of evaluation, you should develop it with no directed thought & no evaluation, you should develop it accompanied by rapture... not accompanied by rapture... endowed with a sense of enjoyment; you should develop it endowed with equanimity."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html :
"There is the case where an individual keeps pervading the first direction[1] — as well as the second direction, the third, & the fourth — with an awareness imbued with good will. Thus he keeps pervading above, below, & all around, everywhere & in every respect the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will: abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will. He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. At the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in conjunction with the devas of the Pure Abodes. This rebirth is not in common with run-of-the-mill people."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .html#fn-1
"That disciple of the noble ones — thus devoid of covetousness, devoid of ill will, unbewildered, alert, mindful — keeps pervading the first direction[2] with an awareness imbued with good will, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth. Thus above, below, & all around, everywhere, in its entirety, he keeps pervading the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, without hostility, without ill will. He discerns, 'Before, this mind of mine was limited & undeveloped. But now this mind of mine is immeasurable & well developed. And whatever action that was done in a measurable way does not remain there, does not linger there."
In http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... html#khp-9
Think: Happy, at rest, may all beings be happy at heart. Whatever beings there may be, weak or strong, without exception, long, large, middling, short, subtle, blatant, seen & unseen, near & far, born & seeking birth: May all beings be happy at heart.
Smile all the time
dhammarelax
a few of these i find to be remedies for the hindrances (ill will)
the others i can find some form of sitting meditation practice. Although I dont find the brahma viharas to be mention more than the froundations of mindfulness. When they are spoken of, many times they are in conjunction with the frames of mindfulness.
Speaking with some of Vimalamramsi's students (long time students) I am always bewildered to here about the way they practice.
Considering Vimalaramsi's stance on the Vissudhimagga and Patisambhidamagga (and other writings that Vimalaramsi dismisses when it comes to meditation practice) I find it puzzling that he practices metta in a way that is described in these literatures.
I remember listen to a talk given by the Venerable Analayo and he was commenting on his own practice. Bhiikhu Analayo stated that he also does metta meditation to settle his mind. However, he made a point to state that he found it hard (just his own personal experience) to meditate following the metta instructions in the commentaries. He went through the commentarial practice:
choosing a close person who you respect (same gender) wishing that person happiness,
then to a neutral person,
and then to a difficult person,. and so on.
However he said that method did not work for him (notice he says him not all)
So he starting analyzing the suttas for metta practice. And he said he could not find the practice of wishing a specific person metta, then another person, then another person... in the suttas any where. No practice of just sending metta to a special, same sex, person over and over again was in there.
He found that every time metta meditation was given in the suttas, it was to be radiated out to all beings in all directions! Thats all!!!! All beings in all directions.
No special person. No person you care about first, neutral second, difficult third. None of that.
So he started practicing that way. Sending loving kindness to beings in all directions. And he found that it worked for him. He made it a point to say that just because the commentarial method didnt work for him that it didnt mean it was wrong, just that it didnt work for him. He knew people that had great experience working with the commentarial method.
Now back to Vimalaramsi. Again what is confusing to me is that with his strong stance against the commentarial meditation instructions from the Vissudhimagga, his method of metta seems to be in line with that method, not the suttas.
Vimalaramsi's method is as follows: (please correct me if I am wrong)
The meditator thinks back to a time when they felt a great deal of happiness.
They build and feel that joy and happpiness radiating in their heart area.
They choose a special friend, of the same sex, whom they admire and wish them the same happiness that they are radiating in their hearts at that time.
The wish should be authentic and genuine. The meditator is to really feel the wish for the special friend...
Now I'll stop there because those instructions seem to be the ones the Venerable Analayo said were in the Vissudhimagga and not really in the suttas. the suttas just say to radiate metta in all directions to all beings. (in so many words)
anyway thanks for the links above.. i will be reading through them
kind regards
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
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dhammarelax
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:59 pm
Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
Hi JamesMkoll wrote:dhammarelax,
How do you do metta meditation? I'd be interested to hear the details of what you do when you sit down to meditate.
I try to practice as Bhante Vimalaramsi teaches so the best would be to check his videos like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brlE7tI ... 2749E73118
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLFs2oN ... 2749E73118
Please don’t take this a guide because I am not a teacher and because depending on your circumstances you might need to change the practice, I really don't discriminate between sitting meditation, walking meditation or daily life practice, I try to meditate all the time and often I find that its easier for me to be more successful while walking or doing other activities than sitting, I also practice a lot lying down because is hard for me keep the body erect in perception-no perception and in cessation. I start my day and finish it by taking the 5 precepts, taking the refuges, honouring the Buddha, repeating the 4 noble truths and the links of DO, then I remind myself of my guidelines for practice that are to stay with my meditation object, to 6R any distractions, to smile and that distractions are my friends. During the day if I break any precepts (the speech one in general) I retake it immediately. Although I don't take the remaining precepts I only eat one meal a day, I don't listen to music nor dance, I don’t use perfumes nor aftershaves (I do use soap). Before the morning sitting session I do a little walking and smiling, currently smiling is enough to bring up the feeling of equanimity that corresponds to the nothingness jhana, but this has not always been the case in the past I had to wish mentally infinite happiness to different groups or to individuals to bring it up, this wish to be effective has to be honest, after I have the feeling (that for this jhana manifests in the head) I irradiate it first to the front then left, right, back, up, down and then to all the directions simultaneously, currently I don't spend much time in every direction but in the past I spent few minutes on each, this irradiation covers the infinite space, it’s an important detail to make the irradiation unlimited I find that this unlimited quality really boosts the feeling, after I try to keep my attention on both the feeling and the irradiation, I try to sit for at least 30 minutes in the morning before the meal. While I eat I focus on the taste of the food trying to avoid thinking about anything (I have not been successful in keeping the feeling while eating). I recite mentally every day the MN 148 sutta, while I am reciting it I try to stay with my meditation object (in this case the feeling not the irradiation) always smiling. I listen every day a dhamma talk by Bhante Vimalaramsi (generally the retreat ones), while I listen I try to stay with my meditation object and keep smiling.
Sometimes the days are sweet and nice and I stay with my MO without problems, some days I have a lot of hindrances, on this days is when I learn more about DO because I 6R a lot, sometimes I find it useful to define each link as they appear, like clinging, craving, feeling, nama rupa, consciousness, etc. . I don't choose on which Jhana to dwell I just smile and let the mind decide where to start the day, sometimes the transition is fast and I have the morning meditation in perception-no perception but I don't force it, the way I move from jhana to jhana (and into cessation) is 6Ring the hindrances this is one of the reasons why they are friends. I don't concentrate on the feeling nor the irradiation with a lot of energy I try to keep my attention on them just with strong interest.The 6Rs have to be executed gently and to make sure that are all included.
Smile all the time
Dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5
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dhammarelax
- Posts: 1087
- Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:59 pm
Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
Hi Billymac29
I believe that what you said is correct the practice of "breaking the barriers" is not in the Suttas but in the Commentaries and I remember Bhante Vimalaramsi acknowledging this in one of his talks, in my practice I found it easier in the beginning to do that, as a side note when I started with Metta I found that sending Metta to myself led to the 1rst Jhana, sending it to friends and family led to the 2nd sending it to neutrals to the 3rd and sending it to enemies to the 4rth, after a while I could get in the Jhanas irradiating to all beings in all directions as per the Suttas so it did help me to start like that.
The source of the jhanic feeling with metta seems to be the sincerity of the wish, let me ask you this what do you think is the source of the feeling with Anapanasati?
Smile all the time
Dhammarelax
I believe that what you said is correct the practice of "breaking the barriers" is not in the Suttas but in the Commentaries and I remember Bhante Vimalaramsi acknowledging this in one of his talks, in my practice I found it easier in the beginning to do that, as a side note when I started with Metta I found that sending Metta to myself led to the 1rst Jhana, sending it to friends and family led to the 2nd sending it to neutrals to the 3rd and sending it to enemies to the 4rth, after a while I could get in the Jhanas irradiating to all beings in all directions as per the Suttas so it did help me to start like that.
The source of the jhanic feeling with metta seems to be the sincerity of the wish, let me ask you this what do you think is the source of the feeling with Anapanasati?
Smile all the time
Dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5
Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
No worries, that wasn't my intention. I was just curious and you were kind enough to respond in detail to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks!dhammarelax wrote:Please don’t take this a guide
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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VinceField
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
I know the question wasn't directed towards me but if I may, according to my understanding of the teachings, Jhana is the result of temporary freedom from sense desires, aversions, delusions and any other hindrance, which occurs with renunciation and temporarily abandoning these defilements through right concentration and right mindfulness.dhammarelax wrote: The source of the jhanic feeling with metta seems to be the sincerity of the wish, let me ask you this what do you think is the source of the feeling with Anapanasati?
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badscooter
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
If you mean the first jhana, it seems to be the experiencing of the breath. making the breath feel good. filling the entire body with rapture while breathing.dhammarelax wrote: The source of the jhanic feeling with metta seems to be the sincerity of the wish, let me ask you this what do you think is the source of the feeling with Anapanasati?
Smile all the time
Dhammarelax
kind regards
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
Hi Billymac,
Mike
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the point, but this seems to imply that the first jhana is based on sensual pleasures. Whereas the Buddha states in MN 36:Billymac29 wrote:If you mean the first jhana, it seems to be the experiencing of the breath. making the breath feel good. filling the entire body with rapture while breathing.dhammarelax wrote: The source of the jhanic feeling with metta seems to be the sincerity of the wish, let me ask you this what do you think is the source of the feeling with Anapanasati?
Smile all the time
Dhammarelax
kind regards
The meditation may start with pleasure based on the breath, but I find it difficult to understand how that can be the rapture and pleasure of the jhana itself. However, there may be a subtlety I am missing...I thought: ‘Why am I afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensual pleasures and unwholesome states?’ I thought: ‘I am not afraid of that pleasure since it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures and unwholesome states.’
...
Now when I had eaten solid food and regained my strength, then quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, I entered upon and abided in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. But such pleasant feeling that arose in me did not invade my mind and remain.
Mike
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badscooter
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
i wasnt quite sure of the question myself. so maybe my answer is off a bit..lolmikenz66 wrote:Hi Billymac,Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the point, but this seems to imply that the first jhana is based on sensual pleasures. Whereas the Buddha states in MN 36:Billymac29 wrote:If you mean the first jhana, it seems to be the experiencing of the breath. making the breath feel good. filling the entire body with rapture while breathing.dhammarelax wrote: The source of the jhanic feeling with metta seems to be the sincerity of the wish, let me ask you this what do you think is the source of the feeling with Anapanasati?
Smile all the time
Dhammarelax
kind regardsThe meditation may start with pleasure based on the breath, but I find it difficult to understand how that can be the rapture and pleasure of the jhana itself. However, there may be a subtlety I am missing...I thought: ‘Why am I afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensual pleasures and unwholesome states?’ I thought: ‘I am not afraid of that pleasure since it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures and unwholesome states.’
...
Now when I had eaten solid food and regained my strength, then quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, I entered upon and abided in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. But such pleasant feeling that arose in me did not invade my mind and remain.
Mike
sorry
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
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dhammarelax
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Re: Key component missing? Does the wheel turn smoothly with
Hi
Not sure of the answer myself but one thing I know is that rapture is a strong and clear feeling, for some time I followed Thanissaros Bhikus teachings that seem to try to start the jhana by creating a nice feeling but havent been too succesfull at generating rapture out of that.
Smile all the time
Dhammarelax
Not sure of the answer myself but one thing I know is that rapture is a strong and clear feeling, for some time I followed Thanissaros Bhikus teachings that seem to try to start the jhana by creating a nice feeling but havent been too succesfull at generating rapture out of that.
Smile all the time
Dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5