Nibbana under the effect of ayahuasca

[Mkoll]

Ok, but reality is always reality, and if it is useful to take ayahuasca, i think it should be recommended.

Delusion is always delusion.

I've done an ayahuasca analogue once before, using different plants from traditional ayahuasca but containing the same chemicals needed for the experience, namely DMT and an MAOI. I perceived the presence of aliens and dinosaurs and there were times of intense hopelessness and intense ecstasy. Definitely the strongest drug I ever used and the most foul tasting liquid I've ever drunk. I can still bring up a gag reflex just remembering the taste in the back of my throat.

I could see how someone could delude themselves into believing something as grandiose as having achieved Nibbana after using the drug. But, it takes a certain kind of already susceptible personality to actually believe that about themselves. Certain Christians might believe they met Christ or are Christ, certain Hindus might believe they've met Krishna or Shiva or have become Krishna or Shiva, and certain Buddhists might believe they've achieved Nibbana. It's delusion conditioned by one's beliefs, that's all.

I wasn't Buddhist when I used it. I don't recommend it now.

[Panegalli]

Unshakeable faith in the buddha, the dhamma and the sangha.
No angry thoughts towards other beings.
No attachment to rites and rituals.
No view of self

Stream enterer have fruit of Dhamma eye, not fruit of Nibbana.

Is this person is you?

Yes

[TheNoBSBuddhist]

So from your very first post, you intended some form of deceit by stipulating that the person experiencing this was someone you know - whereas, in fact, you were speaking about yourself?


No, someone who has Gone Beyond, an arahant, a person who has attained Nibbana, does not need to lie, obscure or use subterfuge.

You have not attained Nibbana.
In fact, I would say you are clinging to the hope that someone will agree with you, because it's what you'd like to think.

But frankly, an awakened person has no need to ask.
Hence my initial doubt, which you have just confirmed.

[seeker242]

I just want to raise the topic on ayahuasca, I know a person that has attained nibbana under its influence, maybe it would be a good discussion of on the 5th precept. What would you say about it?

I would say they didn't actually attain nibbana.

[Panegalli]

So from your very first post, you intended some form of deceit by stipulating that the person experiencing this was someone you know - whereas, in fact, you were speaking about yourself?


No, someone who has Gone Beyond, an arahant, a person who has attained Nibbana, does not need to lie, obscure or use subterfuge.

You have not attained Nibbana.
In fact, I would say you are clinging to the hope that someone will agree with you, because it's what you'd like to think.

But frankly, an awakened person has no need to ask.
Hence my initial doubt, which you have just confirmed.

I'm sorry, I didn't intend to do that, I didn't feel I lied because I am a person I know.

[Panegalli]

I just want to raise the topic on ayahuasca, I know a person that has attained nibbana under its influence, maybe it would be a good discussion of on the 5th precept. What would you say about it?

I would say they didn't actually attain nibbana.

perhaps you are right, but I did have a very useful experience.

[TheNoBSBuddhist]

It's called 'being economical with the truth' and it's not what you said necessarily; it was the intention behind it.
You were hesitant or reluctant to reveal this 'person you know' was you, in order to deflect criticism.

I repeat:
You have been nowhere 'near' Nibbana.

[Mkoll]

I just want to raise the topic on ayahuasca, I know a person that has attained nibbana under its influence, maybe it would be a good discussion of on the 5th precept. What would you say about it?

I would say they didn't actually attain nibbana.

perhaps you are right, but I did have a very useful experience.

That's a better view to have than your OP.

[TheNoBSBuddhist]

You are the most splendid arbiter, Mkoll....

[Panegalli]

It's called 'being economical with the truth' and it's not what you said necessarily; it was the intention behind it.
You were hesitant or reluctant to reveal this 'person you know' was you, in order to deflect criticism.

I repeat:
You have been nowhere 'near' Nibbana.

I didn't want to reveal that it was me because it would make people more resistant to my sugestion.

[m0rl0ck]

I'm planning to do Ayahuasca this September...

Come for the sensory chaos, stay for the increased gastrointestinal motility?

[culaavuso]

In any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is not found, no contemplative of the first... second... third... fourth order [stream-winner, once-returner, non-returner, or arahant] is found.

[walkart]

Yes

Thank you for your truthfull answer.
I dont know if you reached any fruit but i supposed to belief peoples and i hope that this experiance will alow you to develop your wholesome qualities and abandon unwholesome.

I dont know if it's possible now, but can you describe what you have experianced ?

[seeker242]

I just want to raise the topic on ayahuasca, I know a person that has attained nibbana under its influence, maybe it would be a good discussion of on the 5th precept. What would you say about it?

I would say they didn't actually attain nibbana.

perhaps you are right, but I did have a very useful experience.

Perhaps you did! But that does not necessarily mean it was a good or wise thing to do. For example, if you put all your money on black at the roulette table, and the ball lands on black and you double your money, you could say that was a very useful experience, since you doubled your money! That is a very good outcome! But at the same time, just because you doubled your money does not mean it was good or wise to gamble with all the money to begin with. The end alone does not justify the means. The Buddha taught it's better to make sure the means are skillful and wise. Skillful means have no downside risk, unlike gambling which is inherently risky.

[Crazy cloud]

How do they manifest this?
What leads either you or him to definitely ascertain it is Nibbana?

Unshakeable faith in the buddha, the dhamma and the sangha.
No angry thoughts towards other beings.
No attachment to rites and rituals.
No view of self

Hi, had the same four "fruits" my self, a couple of years ago - no drugs, just a big bite of good old dhukka deluxe That state of mind lasted about 6 months, and surely it wasn't nibbana, sorry to say But it made me glued to the eight fold path. Even had some abilities to read minds as well, and where seeing some strange sights, that I still don't understand

Actually I'm happy that the job isn't completly done, because it's kind of fun to strive in this path walking business - what to do when there's no more road ahead?! ..