I don't get results

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.

I don't get results

Postby sundara » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:33 pm

I practise but I don't get any results.
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Re: I don't get results

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:01 pm

would you please tell me what it is what you call "practice"? what are you doing when practicing?
a little quote from ajahn chah:
Remember you don't meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it not with desire but with letting go. If you want anything, you won't find it.

what kind of results are you expecting? is there a desire to get results?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

:anjali:
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Re: I don't get results

Postby sundara » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:14 pm

Get rid of things, that's not reality. How can you get rid of your body, your feelings etc. It's impractical.
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Re: I don't get results

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:18 pm

sundara wrote:Get rid of things, that's not reality. How can you get rid of your body, your feelings etc. It's impractical.

why do you think it is your body, your feelings etc.? It's impractical.
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

:anjali:
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Re: I don't get results

Postby sundara » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:21 pm

You're just asking me to die. Because these things will be wth me all the time, until death. Like I go around all the time saying not mine, not mine, it's impractical.
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Re: I don't get results

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:30 pm

sundara wrote:You're just asking me to die. Because these things will be wth me all the time, until death. Like I go around all the time saying not mine, not mine, it's impractical.

lean back... I'm not asking you to die. I asked you: why do you think it's your body? difficult to answer?

by the way I asked a few other question above. I would appreciate it, if you would be so kind to answer to them. that probably would make things easier to understand...
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.

:anjali:
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Re: I don't get results

Postby genkaku » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:58 pm

Hi sundara -- As asked above, what is it that constitutes a formal meditation practice for you? What, specifically, do you do in your practice? I'm not trying to set you up for some spiritual left hook, but it might help in understanding why you get no results, as you put it.

For my money: Trying to give things up is one of the surest ways of inspiring the very thing you hope to relinquish. Body, mind, intellect, emotion, greed, anger, ignorance, a Chevvy Malibu ... the list goes on and on.

In meditation as I understand it, each of us sits down, erects the spine, sits still, shuts up, and finds a focus point ... perhaps the breath, perhaps something else. In this exercise, a little at a time, the mind that leads us around by the nose on most days is carefully brought into a more relaxed and easy and quieter place. And it is in this (so to speak) place that the uncertainties and disquiet that brought us to meditation in the first place can walk away all by themselves ... not because you want them to or I want them to but because that is what actually happens. And coming into accord with what actually happens is just plain more sensible than pretending we are in control or wise or kool or filled with nifty results.

FWIW
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Re: I don't get results

Postby Guy » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:07 am

Hi sundara,

I am also a beginner and I get results every single time I meditate. But I never get the results I want, always something else. Whatever happens just observe and let go.

If the mind starts thinking about food and you don't want it to, you have just created suffering for yourself. Let the mind think about food, just don't follow it to the fridge.

If the mind starts thinking angry or dark thoughts, just accept these thoughts for what they are and don't try to get rid of them. If you cultivate ill-will towards ill-will you just end up with more ill-will. Only with loving kindness and acceptance is ill-will overcome, never with force.

If the mind is sleepy do you want to get rid of the sleepiness, or are you content just to notice that you are sleepy and stop trying to control it?

If the mind is wandering into the past and future just gently remind it to come back to the present moment. This present moment is good enough, learn to relax and be content in the present moment. It is only when we are not content with whatever is happening in the present moment that the mind becomes restless and wants to go somewhere else.

If the mind starts doubting and asking all sorts of questions - eg. "What is the point of this?" "How am I supposed to let go of the body?" "When will I ever get any results in my meditation?" just notice doubt for what it is, just doubt, let it be, don't follow it, return to the meditation object.

In my limited experience that's all there ever is in meditation - 1) being aware of what is happening 2) letting go/letting be 3) returning to the meditation object

I hope this helps,

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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Re: I don't get results

Postby appicchato » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:24 am

genkaku wrote:In meditation...each of us sits down, erects the spine, sits still, shuts up, and finds a focus point ... perhaps the breath, perhaps something else. In this exercise, a little at a time, the mind that leads us around by the nose on most days is carefully brought into a more relaxed and easy and quieter place. And it is in this (so to speak) place that the uncertainties and disquiet that brought us to meditation in the first place can walk away all by themselves ... not because you want them to or I want them to but because that is what actually happens. And coming into accord with what actually happens is just plain more sensible than pretending we are in control or wise or kool or filled with nifty results.


:thumbsup:
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Re: I don't get results

Postby zavk » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:00 am

Hi Sundara

DItto what the others have said.

When reading Buddhist texts that talk about how meditation can allow us to dissolve the 'self', detach from the 'self', etc, etc, it is easy to feel that one isn't able to attain those results. The dissolution of the 'self' (and all those things that come with it) might be an ideal goal to orientate our practice in the long run. But on the day-to-day level, I would heed my teacher's advice. He would always say that the only benchmark for identifying progress--the best indication of result--is that we are enjoying more peace and contentment in our daily lives, that we are able to deal with difficulties with more equanimity and balance of mind. So, for example, if you find that you when you get upset or angry, you come out of your anger more quickly than you used to, I'd say that that is a sign of progress. That relief from anger is the result.

All the best.
With metta,
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Re: I don't get results

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:31 pm

sundara wrote:I practise but I don't get any results.


I dont know how long you have been practising sundara, but I can quote some Ajahn Chah that might help, although it might be at first that it looks unhelpful. :smile: He said, "only when one of my students has despaired of their practice completely three times, do they begin to make a little progress".

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