enough motivation for stream entry?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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adosa
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Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Postby adosa » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:25 pm

Hi rowyourboat,

So what do you make of someone who would rate highly on your test and yet still caves into clinging and craving for a whole host of unsatisfactory pleasures, some less wholesome than others?

Isn't this part of the struggle of the dry insight approach, sans jhana? Without experiencing the bliss of jhana most inevitably seek pleasures elsewhere.

Just wondering....


adosa :smile:
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183

rowyourboat
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Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:34 am

Hi Adosa

You have just defined a stream entrant!

Yes, jhana is good. It helps for the reasons you mentioned. A 'dry insight meditator' (never met one who hasn't with time accidentally gone into jhana :tongue: ) if he continues with the practice in an unbroken manner should not have the problem of craving. However sometimes vipassana insight can become distanced from 'reality' and even though people maybe fantastic in their meditation, when it comes to the real world- their cravings are intact. I find that yonisomanasikara might bridge the gap in those situations. They also need to have firm grounding in right view (four noble truths).

However jhana practice blocks my thoughts too much during the waking period. So I have stopped doing it. I am experimenting with mindfulness filled with saddha, sila, compassion and dana- similar to the one recommended by the Buddha to Mahanama.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

with metta

:anjali:
RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Reductor
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Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Postby Reductor » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:40 am

rowyourboat wrote:However jhana practice blocks my thoughts too much during the waking period. So I have stopped doing it.
RYB


What do you mean by this? :shrug:
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72


rowyourboat
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Re: enough motivation for stream entry?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:09 pm

Well too much samadhi (unification of mind)-like the type generated by jhana, has a tendency to block my mind from retrieving memories- or to put it in another way i have 'too much peace' with it, to be effective in a busy working life. Some people, I suspect- those who are more prone to find the world a harsh place, tend to block off the world more. This linked with samadhi makes for forgetfulness. I am reminded that the Buddha said that he wouldn't teach anapanasati to those who don't have mindfulness. It is easy to get into samadhi but have weak sati- this then becomes a problem due to unbalanced faculties. So I am developing mindfulness more and it has helped. However I find that this is a problem only for certain people and not others. So I am not saying that this will affect you!
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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