insight into emotions

[christopher:::]

Hi Christopher,

Hi Freawaru,

Have you had the chance to talk with a teacher or advanced practitioner about this?

Yes, but it was from the Tibetan Buddhism point of view. The technique is called "dealing with emotions" in Tibetan Buddhism and it is a vipassana technique. I would simply like to know the Theravada name, too.

Seems like it would fit in with Vipassana, definitely, and Mindfulness Practice, observing mind states and emotions as they arise. You might find these to be helpful:

RIGHT MINDFULNESS (Samma Sati), by Bikkhu Bodhi

The Path of Concentration and Mindfulness, by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

[Freawaru]

Hi Christopher,

Thank you very much for the links

Seems like it would fit in with Vipassana, definitely, and Mindfulness Practice, observing mind states and emotions as they arise. You might find these to be helpful:

RIGHT MINDFULNESS (Samma Sati), by Bikkhu Bodhi

Looks like this kind of practice (observing the mind during emotional altered states) is labeled under either cittanupassana or dhammanupassana or both due to the complexity of it.

The Path of Concentration and Mindfulness, by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Ah, guess emotions are my "eggs" for the time being

[christopher:::]

Ah, guess emotions are my "eggs" for the time being

Freawaru, have you checked out this discussion? You might find some helpful ideas there...

Fragmentation & Distancing from Experience

[PeterB]

Hi All,

there is something else I want to ask regarding meditating on emotions. Another kind of experience I experienced both in every-day situation as well as during sittings.

The experience is that I observe my mind and body during the emotionally altered state but in addition something else, seemingly unrelated is happening in my mind. I mean, unrelated to the external situation and the emotional processes, but still somewhat connected. Or, using an analogy, if we compare the emotional processes in mind and body as the drums/rhythm in music the "something else" is like a melody, not related but not completely disconnected either. This "something else" or the "melody" can differ, it can be intense boredom, or joy, amusement, bliss, physical ecstasy of the kind I only know from jhana, a vast empty space, or the experience of a heart bursting impression of beauty (and some others I don't know the words for).

I am not yet quite sure what exactly happens or why and how. I suspect that the concentration that arises due to the emotion in combination with me observing it somehow triggers this - in any case I would like to know more about this strange and unexpected effect.

Has anybody else experienced this or heard about it or knows the name of these kind of experiences in Theravada?

Hi Freawaru,

Have you had the chance to talk with a teacher or advanced practitioner about this? I've heard a Vipassana instructor once advise to treat such experiences as passing moments of mind and simply return concentration to the breath...

A teacher might also challenge the idea that there is a "me" that observes such things and triggers this.

I know no Theravada teacher teacher who would suggest that there is no me to observe phenomena rising Chris.
What they would suggest is that the self of sense is changing and has no permanence. Not that it has no existence.

[christopher:::]

The experience is that I observe my mind and body during the emotionally altered state but in addition something else, seemingly unrelated is happening in my mind. I mean, unrelated to the external situation and the emotional processes, but still somewhat connected.

Hi Freawaru,

Have you had the chance to talk with a teacher or advanced practitioner about this? I've heard a Vipassana instructor once advise to treat such experiences as passing moments of mind and simply return concentration to the breath...

A teacher might also challenge the idea that there is a "me" that observes such things and triggers this.

I know no Theravada teacher teacher who would suggest that there is no me to observe phenomena rising Chris.
What they would suggest is that the self of sense is changing and has no permanence. Not that it has no existence.

Could you say more, Peter?

How does "the self of sense is changing and has no permanence" differ from the "idea that there is a "me" that observes such things and triggers this" and "treat such experiences as passing moments of mind" ..?

With metta and interest,

[PeterB]

While the particular mix of khandas last they have a real but transient existence. That gives rise to the "I" sense. It has a reality, but not an unchanging reality. Its pain is painful, its joy is joyful, its lust is lustful its peace is peaceful.
But it is also subject to anicca and anatta. So it is real, but transient.
Just as the refraction from a pigeons neck is an actual phenomenon, although the display of colours are due to refraction rather intrinsic to the pigeons feathers.
But we cant deduce therefore that those colours have no reality. Their reality is of a different order.
Just so the khandas have reality, but not permanent unchanging reality.
This is one way in which the Theravada parts company from Nagarjuna.

[christopher:::]

Thanks Peter. Excellent explanation. That is what i was trying to (clumsily perhaps) make reference to, the arising of the "I" sense, which creates a sense of separation between self and world, self and experience--- "my" emotions, "my" ideas, etc...

As relates to anatta and dependent origination, as have been discussing here...

Fragmentation & Distancing from Experience

"We develop views, ideas, opinions, standpoints that are not [equanamous] but that tend to become aspects of "My Self." And this means there's a certain fragmentation that occurs, my self as an experience in the way I'm using it is something that splits away from experience and thereby thinks it has the experience. "Here I am having this, I can get this, I can do this, I can make this happen" and so forth.

We descend from what was an essential integrity and essential wholeness back into behavioral dualism. And then of course the whole thing begins to break down because for a certain amount of time we are able to "do" the calm, "do" the metta, "get" the anicca going but its becoming much more dishonest in a way. It becomes a strategy rather then a realization. One is no longer meeting the experience fully and embracing it fully."

~Ajahn Sucitto