Questions

[Dhammabodhi]

Hello all,

I'm posting after a long time in this section. It is unfortunate that due to immense stress in personal and professional life I stopped my sitting sessions a few months ago. Partially, it was also due to the fact that I was not able to find joy in it. I've restarted, with a stutter and a stop, my practice , but I'm experiencinng some difficulties which I would like to talk about.

As I've posted earlier, I practice Anapanasati, the samatha variant.

1. Pain and Pressure: During my sitting sessions whenever I have a decent concentration on my breath, I feel surging pressures all over my head, in particular in the front of the head. The pressures are accompanied by pain, sometimes sharp, sometimes pressing and consistent. This makes meditation helluva difficult and sometimes I get really discouraged. I feel like a sealed bottle of coke after it has been shaken vigorously.

In the summary of the article "Mystery of the breath nimitta" by Bhikkhu Sona, he mentions an airy, light-headed, pleasant feeling accompanying strong concentration. With me it is just the opposite! This disheartens me to no end as I don't have access to a meditation teacher. I heard a student on one of Bhikkhu Thanissaro's talks say that he had told her of a way to "release" this pressure and "channel this energy". Is there a specific technique that might help me?

2. Optical Illusions: This is not so much of a problem but just an inquiry. After my meditation a couple of days ago I was sitting in the toilet, and I was looking down at the mat on the floor. Suddenly there was a change in my perception of the mat and it began to "shimmer", something like the optical illusion of a mirage. It lasted only a few seconds though. I have had a similar experience before but I rejected it thinking I must have been day dreaming or something, as I wasn't even meditating at the time. Is this normal? Or is it something physiological, totally unrelated to meditation?

Thank you for your kind suggestions,
Metta
Dhammabodhi

[Dan74]

Regarding the optical illusion, this is a fairly common occurrence for meditators. Nothing to worry about I would say.

[Dhammabodhi]

Thank you Dan, that's reassuring.

[Dan74]

No worries!

I was a bit reluctant to answer your first question because I am not familiar with the details of this meditation practice but since I've been practicing breath meditation and had similar experiences in the past, here's the advice I got (take it with a grain of salt).

Pain in the head can be due to several things. It can be that your concentration is more thought-based, like "I am breathing" rather than sensation-based and you should refocus on sensation. It could also be that you are doing nothing wrong and this is an energetic phenomenon Korean call sanggi, which is actually a positive sign and then you should redouble your efforts. Sanggi goes away, but it may first get worse.

It is definitely good to talk to a meditation teacher who would be able to ask you detailed questions about how you practice because there could be more possibilities or incorrect practice. Some of them dangerous if not addressed.

Good luck!!!

PS A yoga teacher at ZFI recommended this for tightness between the eyes:

First bring your awareness to your heart centre for a bit. Then to your base. Then to the cave of brahman, which is in the middle of your head directly behind the place where you are experiencing the tightness and lastly bring your awareness to your crown and open it. It is very easy to open it by using your will.

Spend a bit of time focusing on each area before moving on, 20 0r 30 seconds will probably be enough.

The tightness you are experiencing is building up because your crown is closed. You could probably just shift your awareness up to the top of your head and relax and open there and get relief but the rest of the awarenesses will create a really good alignment.

I used to teach this in my yoga classes where this was a very frequent problem. It works very well.

from http://zenforuminternational.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4375

[PeterB]

To take the optical phenomenon first Dhammabodhi this possibly an example of what is called " nimitta".
Which is usually translated as " sign"..it is produced when we start to approach a state of concentration..hence "sign".
It is if anything an encouraging thing to experience as long as we dont linger over it or imbue it with significance.

The discomfort you mention may simply be physical..by the time we are adults many of us have learned ways of sitting walking and lifting that are not easy for our spines and necks to cope with.
It might be worth getting yourself checked by a physiotherapist who may be able to suggest excercises to enable a better flow of blood and lymph through the shoulders and neck.
Anapanasati is a highly effective means of meditating, whether with samatha or vipassana as the objective. But things go so much better many people find, with a little instruction. And fortunately instruction in Anapanasati is widely available.
I notice that you live in France , which is replete with centres that teach varities of Anapanasati.

[Reductor]

For your second point, I would suggest that you take it up with a doctor. It is possible that it is related to your meditation, but just in case its not...

The first problem might be alleviated by changing the center point of your focus. Most breathers focus around the nose or mouth, which is not appropriate for everyone. Ajahn Lee suggested a few different places you can focus instead and suggested them for those that have frequent headaches of nervous trouble.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... ml#method2
Here is the whole clip:

5. Become acquainted with the bases or focal points for the mind — the resting spots of the breath — and center your awareness on whichever one seems most comfortable. A few of these bases are:

a. the tip of the nose,
b. the middle of the head,
c. the palate,
d. the base of the throat,
e. the breastbone (the tip of the sternum),
f. the navel (or a point just above it).

If you suffer from frequent headaches or nervous problems, don't focus on any spot above the base of the throat. And don't try to force the breath or put yourself into a trance. Breathe freely and naturally. Let the mind be at ease with the breath — but not to the point where it slips away.

I find that the intensity of the focus can set off pressure and pain in the head. I focus on the lips, but if I am straining over much, then I experience pain behind the eyes and forehead. With tranquility orientated breathing it is important to keep the focus steady but relaxed.

For Thans suggestions, they are likely born from his personal experience. You can experiment too: just adjust your focus point, the way you breath, your posture, the way you mentally attend to the pain, etc. and see what works.

[Kenshou]

Speaking of Thanissaro, maybe this'd help in unclogging you? http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... uided.html

"Steady and relaxed" is right, forgive me if this is obvious but emphasizing a little more calmness might be useful, too much intensity and striving can get uncomfortable.

[PeterB]

" Buddho" practice is well worth exploring...good link Kenshou.

[Moggalana]

Maybe you are straining too much, concentrating too hard? Ajahn Brahm always encourages his students to "be kind, be gentle, and let go". Just let the body breath, and watch that process with awareness. If you watch the breath at a specific location, you could, as others have already suggested, change that and experiment with you point of focus. If you are focusing somewhere around the head, put your awareness on the abdominal movement instead, for example.
About the optical illusion: I think I have experienced something similar. I blame it on the meditation, but who knows? If you are worried, consult a doctor.

[Dhammabodhi]

Thank you all for your kind replies .

Dan, thanks for your headsup and letting me know about the Sanggi phenomenon. However, it is unlikely that this is the reason for me. I read about it a little bit and it seems that Sanggi is induced in those who strive with too much fervour and intensity for "quick awakening", if there is such a thing. I, on the other hand, have no such intensity in my practice, if anything I'm plagued by sloth and torpor. Although I aspire to attain a good level of concentration, I don't feel I'm overdoing it (I could be wrong though).

The Yoga thing is interesting but I don't understand what "opening the crown" means. Can you tell me about it?

To take the optical phenomenon first Dhammabodhi this possibly an example of what is called " nimitta".
Which is usually translated as " sign"..it is produced when we start to approach a state of concentration..hence "sign".
It is if anything an encouraging thing to experience as long as we dont linger over it or imbue it with significance.

Thank you Peter, finally some encouraging news! But thereductor has a different opinion....

Ajahn Lee suggested a few different places you can focus instead and suggested them for those that have frequent headaches of nervous trouble.

Thank you for your excellent advice thereductor, I think this might be it. I actually do have nervous problems, as I have posted before on DW... but I've also tried shifting my focus to my belly by watching its rising and falling, with mixed results. Sometimes it does help in reducing the pressure in my head, but never have I reached with it the levels of concentration which I was able to get to with Anapanasati. Maybe I lack the right skills! In any case, I'll look at Ajahn lee's method in more detail and try to practice according to it.

Kenshou,

"Steady and relaxed" is right, forgive me if this is obvious but emphasizing a little more calmness might be useful, too much intensity and striving can get uncomfortable.

You concern is well-founded, Kenshou, but like I said before, I sometimes regret that I dont have enough intensity in my practice as I'm very easily tired and usually have low energy levels due to my condition.

Thank you again, you people who have conquered such obstacles and reached sumblime states! I always feel humbled and honoured to be at Dhammawheel!

With much Metta,
Dhammabodhi

[Kenshou]

Oh, I wasn't aware of the hypersomnia. Makes things tricky. I think you'll eventually find something that works for you regardless, if you keep looking. There's a lot of information out there. We all have our own particular little things to deal with in meditation, and this is probably where a good teacher is a real help, but once you struggle through it on your own, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

My typical mindstate is the opposite of yours, so I can't relate much. But good luck! Ajan Lee is a good source, by the way, do look into it.

[Reductor]

Thank you Peter, finally some encouraging news! But thereductor has a different opinion....

It is the timing of this sign that makes me concerned. If you were just going about normal business, then this visual sign arose, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But I am not prone to visual signs even while meditating, so I am not an authority of any kind on the subject.

Ajahn Lee suggested a few different places you can focus instead and suggested them for those that have frequent headaches of nervous trouble.

Thank you for your excellent advice thereductor, I think this might be it. I actually do have nervous problems, as I have posted before on DW... but I've also tried shifting my focus to my belly by watching its rising and falling, with mixed results. Sometimes it does help in reducing the pressure in my head, but never have I reached with it the levels of concentration which I was able to get to with Anapanasati.

By changing the point of your focus doesn't mean that you have stopped practicing anapanasati, don't worry. But because the method has changed a little it will take time for your mind to become confident. Don't worry. (I said that twice, because, you know, 'DONT WORRY' )

I haven't really tried the abdominal thing, but understand it is more from the mahasi tradition (?) If you are suffering tiredness because of your condition, then you might try a slight variation of breathing, where instead of trying to be tranquil, you work to be mentally active, so that you dispose of your tired mind state. Ajaan lee's method 2, linked in post above, does incorporate some mental activity. You want to explore the sensations of the breath to the greatest degree possible - and enjoy doing so. Don't worry at the outset of attaining stillness, because when you're tired, stillness is not your friend.

When the mind is active and focused on the breath, but in a happy and relaxed way, then you can allow your attention to settle a little bit at a time, coming to rest on your chosen focus point. Just letting the happy, relaxed and alert mind settle on the focus point, at its own pace mind you, should get you to where you want to be.

Maybe I lack the right skills! In any case, I'll look at Ajahn lee's method in more detail and try to practice according to it.

Yes, it is good to focus on a given technique and use it for some time. My above suggestions fit in with method 2. Don't let the exploration become mechanical, let it be interesting and new each time. When you get results, keep them in mind, but remember that the next sit down will unfold differently.

Just my two cents.

Thank you again, you people who have conquered such obstacles and reached sumblime states! I always feel humbled and honoured to be at Dhammawheel!

Three suttas that have proven very valuable to me. They view meditation from a high level and not strictly within the anapanasati framework.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Give them some thought, but don't try to get every bit of detail from them. Just return to them from time to time during your practice, and the relevant details will jump out at you because of the experience you bring from the meditation cushion.

[Dan74]

I can't really tell you much more about "opening the crown" because I am not much of a yoga practitioner and I haven't tried this method. From what follows it appears to be a kind of a mental opening up of the space at the crown of your head and somebody on that thread reported it as helpful.

I think there is a number of meditation teachers who answer questions like these via email and it may be worth your while trying to contact people who have taught meditation extensively and have experience with these kinds of phenomena and what tends to help in various cases.

Maybe you can find these or somebody can suggest some email addresses?

[Ben]

Hi Dhammabodhi

I suffer from exactly the same phenomenon as you do - aches and pains with increasing intensity during samatha variant of anapanasati. The way the retreats that I do are structured, the first 1/3 of the time is devoted to the samatha variant of anapanasati before we move on to a form of vipassana (vedananupassana).
Venerable Analayo explains it very well in his work Satipatthana: the direct path to realization. He contends that the occurance of physical pain during samatha are the 'bodily formations' which comes stilled with increased concentration. I'll try and dig out and transcribe the section if I get time later today/tonight. The mere fact that you are experiencing aches and pains during samatha should be an indication that you are doing the right thing.
My advice to you is to keep on going. I know it can be tough, but while you are meditating and the aches and pains manifest - continue to maintain your awareness on the point of your breath's contact for longer and longer periods. The old habit pattern of diverting your mind to the pain will try and override your ability to maintain focus on your breath, but just keep going. Having said that, don't turn it into an ascetic practice. Just extend yourself a little bit each session.

As for not feeling joy in your meditation, again my advice is to keep going. Joy (piti) is certainly a factor for jhana but its non-presence during meditation shouldn't be a reason to desist with your efforts. Joy will manifest increasingly as your hindrances become quiescent. So, persevere my friend!
metta

Ben

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Dhammabodhi,

I get the unpleasant feelings specified in the first post as well - I've got them right now in fact and I'm not even meditating, although I am sick and that sometimes make it worse. Whilst I haven't worked it out yet, I can give this list of suggestions which have provided intermittent assistance:

- Keep hydrated
- Get your eyes tested
- Painkillers
- Avoid looking at screens too much (esp. computer screens)
- Try chiropractic, physiotherapy, myotherapy etc. to get your head, neck and shoulders in good alignment
- Relax
- Physical exercise, even walking
- Be less mindful*
- Have an alcoholic drink or two* (red wine was recommended to me)
- Get a brain scan if it persists over time (mine came back fine, but it's good to rule it out)

I realise those ones marked with an asterisk are odd advice in the context of a Buddhist form, but if the sensations get that bad, strangely enough, these two options work really well.

Metta,
Retro.

[jcsuperstar]

ajahn lee rocks

painkillers are a good idea, headaches suck, i get migraines from time to time but less so these days

also try to relax the area, i too do anapanasati but i begin my sitting with first relaxing the body i go through my whole body starting with the top of the head down to my feet relaxing it, top of head forehead, back of head, temples, behind the eyes, above the ears, jaw neck, throat all the way down i just focus on each part one by one and relax it with the breath then i use a breath counting method from the commentaries (count the breaths 1-6 then 1-7, 1-8, 1-9 1-10 restart if i miss any) just to make sure I'm firmly with the breath then go into anapanasati "proper"
also my "area" of focus is the whole body awareness as the breath goes in and out.

i build a solid tranquil foundation first which i think you'll find the Buddha recommended

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html

"[1] Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' [2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' [3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.' [2] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' [4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.' [3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'

learning meditation is kinda like play time, i've picked up tips and tricks from so many different teachers, you just find what works for you, which is just what any good teacher basis his/her meditation on, only sometimes they seem to think their way is the only way. i used to just sit and focus on the breath, sometimes it was easy others not, but as i played around a bit as you can see i've added things to get me into the meditation far better than just hoping "today will be a good session".

[Dhammabodhi]

Hello all,

once you struggle through it on your own, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Thank you for your encouragment!

By changing the point of your focus doesn't mean that you have stopped practicing anapanasati, don't worry. But because the method has changed a little it will take time for your mind to become confident. Don't worry. (I said that twice, because, you know, 'DONT WORRY' )

Thanks thereductor, that's always a good advice and although I know it it's always good to be reminded!

I haven't really tried the abdominal thing, but understand it is more from the mahasi tradition (?) If you are suffering tiredness because of your condition, then you might try a slight variation of breathing, where instead of trying to be tranquil, you work to be mentally active, so that you dispose of your tired mind state. Ajaan lee's method 2, linked in post above, does incorporate some mental activity. You want to explore the sensations of the breath to the greatest degree possible - and enjoy doing so. Don't worry at the outset of attaining stillness, because when you're tired, stillness is not your friend.

Yesterday I tried the method of breathing in actively(rather than with passive observance) through my throat and the sternum, and lo and behold! I was able to achieve a fair degree of concentration with only minor pressures in my head! I found that it was easiest for me to focus on the middle of the chest area. I'll keep training with this method and see where it leads me!

Just my two cents.

Even Two dhamma cents have incalculable value!!

To Dan: I also tried to imagine my crown area opening and the pressure "flowing out", but without much success. Maybe one needs to know in more detail this technique for it to be effective.

My advice to you is to keep on going. I know it can be tough, but while you are meditating and the aches and pains manifest - continue to maintain your awareness on the point of your breath's contact for longer and longer periods. The old habit pattern of diverting your mind to the pain will try and override your ability to maintain focus on your breath, but just keep going. Having said that, don't turn it into an ascetic practice. Just extend yourself a little bit each session.

As for not feeling joy in your meditation, again my advice is to keep going. Joy (piti) is certainly a factor for jhana but its non-presence during meditation shouldn't be a reason to desist with your efforts. Joy will manifest increasingly as your hindrances become quiescent. So, persevere my friend!

Thank you Ben for your encouragement and advice! You are spot on in saying that the old habit patterns override my ability to focus. I'll keep on trying to achieve cittekaggata!

I want to persevere, but since I'm close to finishing my degree sometimes I have way too much work and it diverts and dominates my mind so much I forget about eating and sleeping, so meditation practice in this situation becomes incredibly difficult! So there are times that I fail when I'm put to the test. However, the good news is that I also pass some tests! With encouragement from all the noble people here I'm confident that there will be a day that I'll be firmly established in the path and never waiver from it again.

- Keep hydrated
- Get your eyes tested
- Painkillers
- Avoid looking at screens too much (esp. computer screens)
- Try chiropractic, physiotherapy, myotherapy etc. to get your head, neck and shoulders in good alignment
- Relax
- Physical exercise, even walking
- Be less mindful*
- Have an alcoholic drink or two* (red wine was recommended to me)
- Get a brain scan if it persists over time (mine came back fine, but it's good to rule it out)

This is a great list! But some things on this list I cannot do, like number 2 and number 4. My work is solely on my computer, that rules 4 out. Getting an eye tested by a Doctor here in France turned out to be exceptionally difficult. If you want an appointment with an Eye Doctor, u'll get one after many months, maybe 8-10 months or even a year. I actually do have an eye problem but can't get it checked because I'll leave France when I'm done with my degree(which is expected to be soon).

The points in asterisk are interesting, because I've had the same experience. But many times, for me it becomes hard NOT to experience the tactile sensations near the tip of the nose. I only occasionally take wine, I dont really like to have alcoholic beverages. Hot drinks like coffee or tea helps me a lot sometimes.

learning meditation is kinda like play time, i've picked up tips and tricks from so many different teachers, you just find what works for you, which is just what any good teacher basis his/her meditation on, only sometimes they seem to think their way is the only way.

[/quote][/quote]

Thanks for sharing your techniques, jc, I'll try them out in conjunction with Ajahn Lee's method!

Thank you all again for your replies and suggestions!
Metta ,
Dhammabodhi

[Reductor]

Yesterday I tried the method of breathing in actively(rather than with passive observance) through my throat and the sternum, and lo and behold! I was able to achieve a fair degree of concentration with only minor pressures in my head! I found that it was easiest for me to focus on the middle of the chest area. I'll keep training with this method and see where it leads me!

That's delightful. Keep at it and don't hesitate to ask for help whenever the need arises.

Take care.

[jcsuperstar]

focusing on the chest is an ajahn tate method who like ajahn lee was a student of ajahn mun, ajahn fuang a student of ajahn lee suggests the whole body method, ajahn thanissaro who was ajahn fuang's student is the one we get all of this translated to us from.. the forest tradition is a quite the interconnected group.

[Reductor]

focusing on the chest is an ajahn tate method who like ajahn lee was a student of ajahn mun, ajahn fuang a student of ajahn lee suggests the whole body method, ajahn thanissaro who was ajahn fuang's student is the one we get all of this translated to us from.. the forest tradition is a quite the interconnected group.

The beauty of all of it, is that when the mind is relaxed and open, settling in the chest, or on the lips, or wherever will lead to a whole body experience if the attention is steady.