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Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi - Page 5 - Dhamma Wheel

Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
JackV
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby JackV » Thu May 27, 2010 9:30 am

Here where a thousand
captains swore grand conquest
Tall grasses their monument.

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smokey
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby smokey » Mon May 31, 2010 1:07 am

Clearly I have mistaken by jumping to conclusion.

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clw_uk
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby clw_uk » Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:42 pm

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Zom
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Zom » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:04 pm

As far as I see it - the problem is not in too much effort, not in sati, not in wanting or not wanting enlightenment.
The answer is "the time has not yet come". You can't win enlightenment by spending hours in meditation. It doesn't work that way.
You have to accumulate enough numerous positive qualities, cleanse the mind of negative ones and have enough kamma fruits for this.

Ajahn Chah said that it doesn't matter when you will attain nibbana, because you can't force the result to come as soon as possible.
What you can do - is to cultivate Noble Path according to your present skills, kamma, virtues. And that's it. No "secret practices".

This sutta, though short, is very imporant for many meditators to understand:

"These are the three urgent duties of a farming householder. Now, that farming householder does not have the power or might [to say:] 'May my crops spring up today, may the grains appear tomorrow, and may they ripen the next day.' But when the time has come, the farming householder's crops spring up, the grains appear, and they ripen.

"In the same way, there are these three urgent duties of a monk. Which three? The undertaking of heightened virtue, the undertaking of heightened mind, the undertaking of heightened discernment. These are the three urgent duties of a monk. Now, that monk does not have the power or might [to say:] 'May my mind be released from fermentations through lack of clinging/sustenance today or tomorrow or the next day.' But when the time has come, his mind is released from fermentations through lack of clinging/sustenance.


Also fits this topic -)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Og8K81M6E

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clw_uk
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby clw_uk » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:59 pm

But couldnt you say that if there is still wanting and not wanting things then there wont be nibbana as there will be dukkha whereas if one has strong and constant sati then ignorance is dispelled and nibbana follows, since with sati one doesnt reject or grasp onto but simply observes and so insight arises
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rowyourboat
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:10 pm

Mindfulness is always intentional- how can a person be mindful without wanting to be mindful? Canda -a desire for the path, , the desire for mindfulness, is something to be developed. It is a desire for the ending of desire- and it works. Try not having any urge at all to get to nibbana- that is possibly even worse than extreme cliniging and craving for it IMO because the person who wants it will do/go where he has to get it done, and may learn about the right level of effort required. The person who has no desire for nibbana is simply going to drift in the odd bit of pleasantness created by samadhi. Often this is all that is 'sold' in the west, because that is all that can be afforded due to various reason. The Buddha said that it is better to have niramisa dukkha ('suffering arising from seeing not having progressed in the dhamma') than suffering arising from not getting sensual things. He also said that it is better to cry frustrated as monk than to give up the robes (or something along those lines). These statements are about striving for the practice. He has praised stream entry many times, quite intentionally giving rise to craving for it in the monks listening to it. He also mentioned putting in the right amount of effort- not too little, not too much (like the strings on a stringed instruments have to be tightened just the right amount). This kind of teaching (just relax, take it easy) is a teaching for those who are trying too hard (the monk who did walking meditation until his feet bled), rather than those of us who are simply doing too little and looking for any excuse to do even less.

Try trying less and see where it takes you. Just be mindful to review your practice a few years down the line to see if you are any closer to nibbana.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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clw_uk
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby clw_uk » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:32 pm

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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Zom » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:43 pm


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clw_uk
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby clw_uk » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:47 pm

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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby clw_uk » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:49 pm

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bodom
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby bodom » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:05 pm

At S V 272, Ananda countered the proposal that to overcome desire using desire would be a task without end with the argument that the desire for realization will automatically subside once realization is gained. Similarly, according to A 11 145, it is on the basis of "craving" (for the destruction of the influxes) that craving (in general) will be overcome. Also Sn 365, where the Buddha spoke approvingly of someone longing to attain nibbana. The importance of "desire" as an aspect of the path leading to realization is also exemplified in the canonical presentation of the four roads to power (iddhipadda), one of which is desire (chanda).

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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clw_uk
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby clw_uk » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:09 pm

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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Zom » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:33 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Alex123 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:18 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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clw_uk
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:24 pm

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PeterB
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby PeterB » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:27 pm

You simply have no way of knowing Alex how those who practice without a wish or desire for Nibbana fare.
You are simply imagining what it would be like for YOU to practice without such a wish. You have no way of knowing to what degree it might or might not apply to others. I know a number of people who practice Buddhist meditation without regard to nibbana, and who have practised dutifully and with positive results, daily for decades , and who do not drift into empty sensuality.


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