Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 4:43 pm

whitewedding wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
whitewedding wrote:Oh sorry - I miss read it - I thought you were saying you had done all this.

No - I haven't had guidance from a realised teacher (which I think is probably a very good thing - too many lectures cloud your mind). But I have been meditating virtually all the time for the last year or so (and had been meditating regularly before that).
And no I haven't read ... in original Pali (but still the translation contradict so I don't know if that would help). That's why I don't actually take the translations into account and piece together the general framework instead.
So, based upon your own experience (which is based upon what?) you have cobbled together the truly true understanding of the Buddha's teachings - is that what you are saying?


Mate - why do you have to be sending me this shit. You see - the difference between me and you is that I don't say this stuff to people and that is why I will progress much further in meditation than you ever will.
Heavens.

No - I haven't got a "totally true understanding" but am learning more each day. I simply play around with my technique and compare it with the suttas. You see - I have experiences coming automatically which agree with the experiences the buddha describes (like what I think (notice I have always said "I think")) are the factors of awakening. These are the signs to me that I am on the right path.
The capacity for self delusion in practice, especially a self directed one, is quite remarkable, which is why working with a teacher, or several teachers, over a fair period of time is worthwhile. Also, of value is the capacity to listen to others and to entertain the probability that of being wrong.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19194
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 4:47 pm

whitewedding wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
whitewedding wrote:
Do you actually have any productive comments to make about my technique?
Probably not, given that it does not make a lot of sense.


What are you talking about - in what way doesn't it make sense?

Convo over mate - I've got better things to do with my time than read all the insulting comments your sending me.
You are using terminology here in a highly idiosyncratic way, which makes for difficulty in understanding what is that you are trying to say. One of the big problems here is that you are coming across as preaching, which is really a very big turn off. You might want to review/revise your past msgs in that light.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19194
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 4:56 pm

I'm not preaching - I am simply suggesting a mediation technique I have developed. Thought it might be some help to people.
whitewedding
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 4:59 pm

I also have developed another - far better meditation technique - but maybe I'll wait until your offline before I describe how I developed this one.
Steve.
whitewedding
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 5:05 pm

whitewedding wrote:Buddha's Jhana is clearly not the same thing as the Visuddhimagga's Jhana.
You claim that but you do not support it, giving no reason to take it seriously.
Buddha gives a very detailed description of how to get to his Jhanas in the suttas - the way to get there is nothing like the way to get to Visuddhimagga's Jhana.
And we should believe you, why?
Buddha's Jhana is neither sammatha Jhana nor vipassana Jhana - It is both. And he says that you are unlikely to reach Nibbana unless you have both simultaneously.
It really does not look like you have much of a grasp of the notion of vipassana jhanas as an actual practice. You assert without any real support these sorts of claims, and then in your next msg you talk about LSD. You really need to reassess your whole approach here in talking about this stuff.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19194
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 5:08 pm

whitewedding wrote:I'm not preaching - I am simply suggesting a mediation technique I have developed. Thought it might be some help to people.
Why should we take you seriously? Why should we listen to you rather than to Mahasi Sayadaw or Ajahn Brahm or Ajahn Chah or U Ba Khin or Buddhaghosa?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19194
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 5:11 pm

whitewedding wrote:I also have developed another - far better meditation technique - but maybe I'll wait until your offline before I describe how I developed this one.
Steve.
Again, a question you might want to address is why whould we take you seriously, given your unsupported criticisms of other understandings of the Dhamma practice that look to be far more securely grounded in the Buddha's teachings?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19194
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 5:30 pm

Well - if you don't want to know about the other meditation technique (I call it centered vipassana) I developed then I won't post it up then. I have already kind of explained it a bit in the post I wrote about dependent origination (there I call it new sammatha combined with satipatthana) - I was just going to explain in more detail how I developed it.

And yeah - sorry - I have brought up the sammatha/vipassana coupled together thing in a few posts (but it was actually directly relevant to the posts themselves).

I'm not critercising anyones view on the Dharma - in fact I haven't actually said anything about the Dharma (except in my post on dependent origination). I'm just talking about meditation technique that's all. Nobody's wrong and nobody's right - there is no 1 way to meditate. But the Buddha does say that we are unlikely to obtain Nibbana unless we have both sammatha and vipassana coupled together - I think that was quite a relevant point given the title of this post - don't you?

Cheers,
Steve.
whitewedding
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 5:32 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
whitewedding wrote:I also have developed another - far better meditation technique - but maybe I'll wait until your offline before I describe how I developed this one.
Steve.
Again, a question you might want to address is why whould we take you seriously, given your unsupported criticisms of other understandings of the Dhamma practice that look to be far more securely grounded in the Buddha's teachings?


Oh sorry - you said "Dhamma practice" - not "Dhamma".
Why do you think yours are more securely grounded in the Buddha's teachings than mine?

Steve.
whitewedding
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 5:53 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
whitewedding wrote:I also have developed another - far better meditation technique - but maybe I'll wait until your offline before I describe how I developed this one.
Steve.
Again, a question you might want to address is why whould we take you seriously, given your unsupported criticisms of other understandings of the Dhamma practice that look to be far more securely grounded in the Buddha's teachings?


Even if you are thinking I am critisising your meditation practice (which I am not - I also do the more typical taught meditation practices and I'm not saying that they don't lead to Nibbana - but we can link them up together into one unit with mindfulness - that's all I'm saying) then why is that reason not to take me seriously?

Also - they're not unsupported - they are supported by the suttas.

Steve.
whitewedding
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 6:37 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
whitewedding wrote:I also have developed another - far better meditation technique - but maybe I'll wait until your offline before I describe how I developed this one.
Steve.
Again, a question you might want to address is why whould we take you seriously, given your unsupported criticisms of other understandings of the Dhamma practice that look to be far more securely grounded in the Buddha's teachings?


Also - the technique I describe is totally based upon regular vipassana. I'm just adding these occasional bursts of LSD to it, explaining how to do it and explaining the effect.
Since the technique is founded upon regular vipassana I don't understand how I can be critising regular vipassana.
whitewedding
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 7:22 pm

whitewedding wrote:
Also - the technique I describe is totally based upon regular vipassana. I'm just adding these occasional bursts of LSD to it, explaining how to do it and explaining the effect.
Since the technique is founded upon regular vipassana I don't understand how I can be critising regular vipassana.
LSD? Really?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19194
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 7:41 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
whitewedding wrote:
Also - the technique I describe is totally based upon regular vipassana. I'm just adding these occasional bursts of LSD to it, explaining how to do it and explaining the effect.
Since the technique is founded upon regular vipassana I don't understand how I can be critising regular vipassana.
LSD? Really?


Yes LSD - The experience is much the same (except this gives little bursts of it rather than a continual stream of it).

Steve.
whitewedding
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 7:46 pm

Let's make friends tiltbillings.
I'm sorry if I perhaps offended you or anyone. I'll try not to come across so preachy in the future (I didn't really think I was - but cheers for the advice).
This is the first time I've actually been on a buddhist forum and over time I found out lots of stuff I want to say so I just came out with some of it (because its the first time I have been on a buddhist forum - well - I joined a while ago but that was just to read stuff) so that's probably the reason why I have come across a bit preachy maybe.
Sorry.

Peace and love,
Steve.
whitewedding
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 7:48 pm

whitewedding wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
whitewedding wrote:
Also - the technique I describe is totally based upon regular vipassana. I'm just adding these occasional bursts of LSD to it, explaining how to do it and explaining the effect.
Since the technique is founded upon regular vipassana I don't understand how I can be critising regular vipassana.
LSD? Really?


Yes LSD - The experience is much the same (except this gives little bursts of it rather than a continual stream of it).

Steve.
Must have found that teaching of the Buddha in the Hippy-dippy Sutta.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19194
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 7:58 pm

Must have found that teaching of the Buddha in the Hippy-dippy Sutta.


Come on mate! Give it a break!
If you have never taken LSD then you really can't comment on this one.
NB - There is a reason why LSD users are stereotyped to become buddhists.
whitewedding
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 7:59 pm

whitewedding wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
LSD? Really?


Yes LSD - The experience is much the same (except this gives little bursts of it rather than a continual stream of it).

Steve.
I wrote:Must have found that teaching of the Buddha in the Hippy-dippy Sutta.
Yes, with commentaries by Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19194
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 8:05 pm

whitewedding wrote:
Must have found that teaching of the Buddha in the Hippy-dippy Sutta.


Come on mate! Give it a break!
If you have never taken LSD then you really can't comment on this one.
NB - There is a reason why LSD users are stereotyped to become buddhists.
And if you have never really worked with an experienced teacher coming from a Visuddhimagga brackground, you cannot comment on that. Having read through your description of meditation, you are making my point. LSD. Groovy.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19194
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 8:09 pm

How is working with an experienced meditation teacher any substitute for meditation experience?
whitewedding
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Thu May 20, 2010 8:11 pm

Hmm, T Lobsang Rampa walks amongst us again.

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
User avatar
BubbaBuddhist
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:55 am
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee

PreviousNext

Return to Theravada Meditation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 5 guests