Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 8:14 pm

Here's a quote from mindfulness in plain english:

"Too much awareness without calm to balance it will result in a wildly over sensitized state similar to abusing LSD."

Who's T Lobsog... ?
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 8:23 pm

whitewedding wrote:How is working with an experienced meditation teacher any substitute for meditation experience?
If you had worked with a teacher, you would know. One of the benefits is that a teacher can help you from taking too seriously stuff that one might experience that warrants not being taken seriously at all. In other words, it keeps one from toddling down the garden path and thinking such a toddle is a serious journey on the Eightfold Path. Self deception is a very big danger for the self matriculator. A good guide on the path can point out things that you likely will not have noticed or correct one from taking questionable assumptions as being more than they are.

"Too much awareness without calm to balance it will result in a wildly over sensitized state similar to abusing LSD."
And in all likelihood the Ven author would say that any use of LSD is an abuse of LSD.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Tex » Thu May 20, 2010 8:24 pm

Hi, Steve.

I'm just curious why you would want to add on to the Buddha's meditation instructions?

If we've not yet reached the "X" at the end of the map ourselves, why would we start to redraw the map in the middle of our journey, and how could we be sure of where we're leading ourselves?
"The serene and peaceful mind is the true epitome of human achievement."-- Ajahn Chah, Living Dhamma

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 8:26 pm

I would recommend, Steve, that you pay attention to what others here say. There are a number of highly experienced people here.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 8:49 pm

I am not adding anything onto his instructions - I'm just doing exactly what he says (it's quite clearly described in the 7 factors of awakening part of the anapanasati sutta).
Also - I'm not redrawing the road map at all. The road map is right - I just think that we should then link it all together into one until.

I will listen to people - but not that guy I was just talking to - he has nothing helpful to say.
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 8:53 pm

sorry - I meant 1 unit - not "until".

Peace,
Steve.
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Thu May 20, 2010 8:54 pm

whitewedding wrote:
I will listen to people - but not that guy I was just talking to - he has nothing helpful to say.


Oh sorry - you are the guy I was talking to - lol.
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Kenshou » Thu May 20, 2010 9:04 pm

I am not adding anything onto his instructions - I'm just doing exactly what he says


I am not so sure about this.
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 20, 2010 9:05 pm

whitewedding wrote:
whitewedding wrote:
I will listen to people - but not that guy I was just talking to - he has nothing helpful to say.


Oh sorry - you are the guy I was talking to - lol.

Geez. Talking to and about yourself? It is just not clear.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Anicca » Thu May 20, 2010 9:07 pm

whitewedding wrote:
whitewedding wrote:
I will listen to people - but not that guy I was just talking to - he has nothing helpful to say.


Oh sorry - you are the guy I was talking to - lol.


It's a nice day for a white wedding.
It's a nice day to start again.

What was the original topic of this thread? Oh, yeah - Here is the answer to ...
Why Do People Today Not Achieve Bodhi?
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Ben » Thu May 20, 2010 9:29 pm

Hi everyone

Its time to return this thread to topic.
Any further off-topic posts will be removed and serial offenders may be subject to moderator attention.
Thanks for your cooperation.

Ben
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Fri May 21, 2010 3:49 am

smokey wrote:The answer is quite simple. People are putting too much effort while meditating. And I will just say wu-wei. Hope some of you contemplatives will understand.


Apparently lots of people do (they just don't tell unenlightened people about it because they obviously get deemed insane). He says in this book (which is an amazing book)...
http://www.interactivebuddha.com/mctb.shtml
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Fri May 21, 2010 3:52 am

Anicca wrote:
whitewedding wrote:
whitewedding wrote:
I will listen to people - but not that guy I was just talking to - he has nothing helpful to say.


Oh sorry - you are the guy I was talking to - lol.


It's a nice day for a white wedding.
It's a nice day to start again.

What was the original topic of this thread? Oh, yeah - Here is the answer to ...
Why Do People Today Not Achieve Bodhi?


lol - yeah - good call.
I have just returned it to it's original topic with some very good news (see above).
Sorry for taking it off topic.
Steve.
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby retrofuturist » Fri May 21, 2010 4:27 am

Greetings Steve,

Did you know Daniel Ingram has a forum?

I don't mean to sound dismissive of anything you've been saying here at Dhamma Wheel, but I can't help thinking you might actually get a bit more traction with your line of inquiry at his site.

You're welcome here of course - I'm just letting you know your options.

:popcorn:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Brizzy » Fri May 21, 2010 5:08 am

:jumping: ..........and people think I'm a trouble maker! :popcorn:

As far as not achieving bodhi - does this mean making the first breakthrough (sotapattana)? If it does, then I think many people these days do achieve it and without recourse to meditation.

:smile:

BTW............. Is it more of an offence to be offensive online or to undermine a populist teaching with rational argument and sutta references?
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Anicca » Fri May 21, 2010 5:21 am

Brizzy wrote:As far as not achieving bodhi - does this mean making the first breakthrough (sotapattana)? If it does, then I think many people these days do achieve it and without recourse to meditation.

Howdy Brizzy!

No - *NOT* achieving bodhi means *NOT* making the first breakthrough - sheesh!

BTW............. Did you know Daniel Ingram has a forum? - Just trying to help you o-u-t! :thinking:

Metta
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby retrofuturist » Fri May 21, 2010 5:31 am

Greetings Anicca,

Anicca wrote:BTW............. Did you know Daniel Ingram has a forum? - Just trying to help you o-u-t! :thinking:

Heheh... no, it's not like that. The reference that whitewedding listed to above was to Daniel Ingram ("Arahant")'s book and Daniel has a forum specifically dedicated for serious meditators and those who share his way of thinking. I had a look around there myself at one point, but I don't do enough sustained meditation to warrant participating there. I am glad it exists though - for some people it's just what they're looking for. Apparently there's another forum of this ilk started up recently by someone else which splintered off from Daniel's too, but I disgress.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Brizzy » Fri May 21, 2010 5:45 am

Anicca wrote:
Brizzy wrote:As far as not achieving bodhi - does this mean making the first breakthrough (sotapattana)? If it does, then I think many people these days do achieve it and without recourse to meditation.

Howdy Brizzy!

No - *NOT* achieving bodhi means *NOT* making the first breakthrough - sheesh!

BTW............. Did you know Daniel Ingram has a forum? - Just trying to help you o-u-t! :thinking:

Metta


Ok. I did a double negative...........naughty me. :rolleye:

"As far AS achieving bodhi - does this mean making the first breakthrough (sotapattana)? If it does, then I think many people these days do achieve it and without recourse to meditation."

BTW Metta = love and kindness........sheesh!

:smile:
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby whitewedding » Fri May 21, 2010 12:45 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Anicca,

Anicca wrote:BTW............. Did you know Daniel Ingram has a forum? - Just trying to help you o-u-t! :thinking:

Heheh... no, it's not like that. The reference that whitewedding listed to above was to Daniel Ingram ("Arahant")'s book and Daniel has a forum specifically dedicated for serious meditators and those who share his way of thinking. I had a look around there myself at one point, but I don't do enough sustained meditation to warrant participating there. I am glad it exists though - for some people it's just what they're looking for. Apparently there's another forum of this ilk started up recently by someone else which splintered off from Daniel's too, but I disgress.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Hee hee.
Cheers Retro - don't worry - no offense taken. It's very helpful thankyou.
I'll check it out - cheers - it probably is just what I'm looking for.
Many thanks,
Steve :-)

With metta :-)
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Anicca » Fri May 21, 2010 1:24 pm

Brizzy wrote:BTW Metta = love and kindness........sheesh!


Sorry - i maybe should have added a :tongue:

my BTW was more for Retro and he picked up on it...

Metta to all everywhere

:anjali:
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