Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

And what is name-&-form? Feeling, perception, intention, contact, & attention: This is called name.

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Extract from SN 12.2: Paticca-samuppada-vibhanga Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And what is name-&-form? Feeling, perception, intention, contact, & attention: This is called name.

For more on nama, see: http://nanavira.xtreemhost.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=73" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro.

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Wind,

"Mentality" is fine as a translation, unless you assume mentality to include consciousness (vinnana).

As you can see from the above sutta quotation, vinnana is not an aspect of nama.

Metta,
Retro.

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Wind,

I think it's useful because consciousness always has an object... e.g. eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, body-consciousness, mind-consciousness and so on. It is merely the presentation of a dhamma via one of the sensory channels, no more, no less. Recognising it as such, it's much harder to reify it into a self when it is just the presentation of sense input. In the Mahanidana Sutta there's some details on the mutual dependence of nama-rupa and vinnana... in other words, when there is no sense-input via the 6 channels, there can be no present experience or awareness of nama or rupa... one disappears, the other disappears.

Metta,
Retro.

Wind wrote: I wonder why Thanissaro translated it to "name".

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Extract from SN 12.2: Paticca-samuppada-vibhanga Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro.

From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media.

Wind wrote: I wonder why Thanissaro translated it to "name".

nāma
(lit. 'name'): 'mind', mentality.

This term is generally used as a collective name for the 4 mental groups (arūpino khandha), viz.

feeling (vedanā),
perception (saññā),
mental formations (sankhāra) and
consciousness (viññāna).
Within the 4th link (nāma-rūpa) in the formula of the paticcasamuppāda, however, it applies only to karma-resultant (vipāka) feeling and perception and a few karma-resultant mental functions inseparable from any consciousness.

As it is said (M.9; D.15; S.XII.2): "Feeling (vedanā), perception (saññā), volition (cetanā), impression (phassa), mental advertence (manasikāra): this, o brother, is called mind (nāma)."

With the addition of 2 more mental factors, namely, mental vitality (jīvita) and concentration (samādhi), here 'stationary phase of mind' (cittatthiti), these 7 factors are said in the Abhidhammattha Sangaha to be the inseparable mental factors in any state of consciousness.

nāma-rūpa
(lit. 'name and form'): 'mind-and-body', mentality and corporeality. It is the 4th link in the dependent origination (s. paticcasamuppāda 3, 4) where it is conditioned by consciousness, and on its part is the condition of the sixfold sense-base. In two texts (D. 14, 15), which contain variations of the dependent origination, the mutual conditioning of consciousness and mind-and-body is described (see also S. XII, 67), and the latter is said to be a condition of sense-impression (phassa); so also in Sn. 872.

The third of the seven purifications (s. visuddhi), the purification of views, is defined in Vis.M. XVIII as the "correct seeing of mind-and-body," and various methods for the discernment of mind-and-body by way of insight-meditation (vipassanā, q.v.) are given there. In this context, 'mind' (nāma) comprises all four mental groups, including consciousness. - See nāma.

In five-group-existence (pañca-vokāra-bhava, q.v.), mind-and body are inseparable and interdependent; and this has been illustrated by comparing them with two sheaves of reeds propped against each other: when one falls the other will fall, too; and with a blind man with stout legs, carrying on his shoulders a lame cripple with keen eye-sight: only by mutual assistance can they move about efficiently (s. Vis.M. XVIII, 32ff). On their mutual dependence, see also paticca-samuppāda (3).

With regard to the impersonality and dependent nature of mind and corporeality it is said:

"Sound is not a thing that dwells inside the conch-shell and comes out from time to time, but due to both, the conch-shell and the man that blows it, sound comes to arise: Just so, due to the presence of vitality, heat and consciousness, this body may execute the acts of going, standing, sitting and lying down, and the 5 sense-organs and the mind may perform their various functions" (D. 23).

"Just as a wooden puppet though unsubstantial, lifeless and inactive may by means of pulling strings be made to move about, stand up, and appear full of life and activity; just so are mind and body, as such, something empty, lifeless and inactive; but by means of their mutual working together, this mental and bodily combination may move about, stand up, and appear full of life and activity."

m0rl0ck wrote:I was practicing a new meditation tech today, which basically consists of just letting go of what ever comes up. My attention being drawn to my breath (not alot else going on) i noticed alot of fine background feeling/perceptual stuff going on that i hadnt noticed before and wouldnt have beleived could be involved with the simple act of just say, starting an inhale. This was pretty basic low level stuff that if i would have been concentrating on something i might not have noticed. So my question is, what is it, what function of the "self", is it that notices something like that?

Nanavira Thera wrote: In the Buddha's Teaching, all consciousness is action (by mind, voice or body) and every action is conscious. But this does not mean that every action is done in awareness -- indeed, what is commonly called an 'unconscious action' is merely a (conscious) action that is done not deliberately, that is done unawares. What we commonly call a 'conscious action' is, strictly speaking, a deliberate action, an action that requires some thought to perform (as, for example, when we try to do something that we have not done before, or only infrequently). When we do such actions, we have to consider what we are doing (or else we shall make a mistake); and it is this considering what we are doing that constitutes 'awareness'. An action that we do without considering what we are doing is an action that is done without 'awareness'.
http://www.nanavira.110mb.com/lett1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;