Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

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Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:40 am

I've been reading his book, but to me the 16 stage method appears quite daunting. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has used this method.
Towards the end of the book it is said that a simple 2-stage approach can be used, which is what I've been doing for while anyway.
Thanks.

P
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby bodom » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:59 am

2 stage approach for me as well.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby Sanghamitta » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:03 am

Tell us more ?
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby bodom » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:17 am

Sanghamitta wrote:Tell us more ?


If one is unable to reach jhana and contemplate the feelings associated with of rapture, bliss etc. of the second and third tetrads, Buddhadasa has said it possible to practice just two steps. First concentrate the mind to the best of ones ability, ie. first tetrad, and then turn to practice the fourth tetrad of contemplating impermanence, cessation etc. to gain insight. No need then to necessarily go through all 16 steps.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby Sanghamitta » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:27 am

Thanks Bodom. I may come back with more questions if thats OK but probably not for a while.
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:35 pm

bodom wrote:
Sanghamitta wrote:Tell us more ?


If one is unable to reach jhana and contemplate the feelings associated with of rapture, bliss etc. of the second and third tetrads, Buddhadasa has said it possible to practice just two steps. First concentrate the mind to the best of ones ability, ie. first tetrad, and then turn to practice the fourth tetrad of contemplating impermanence, cessation etc. to gain insight. No need then to necessarily go through all 16 steps.

:anjali:

yeah that's kinda how i understand it, this would be i guess what you call the vipassana aspect of anapanasati as opposed to using it as a method to jhana.
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:44 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:yeah that's kinda how i understand it, this would be i guess what you call the vipassana aspect of anapanasati as opposed to using it as a method to jhana.


So in Buddhadasa's approach one maintains awareness of the breath while doing vipassana - have I got that right?

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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:46 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:Tell us more ?


Basically it's a structured series of meditations based on the Anapanasati Sutta.

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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:55 pm

porpoise wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:yeah that's kinda how i understand it, this would be i guess what you call the vipassana aspect of anapanasati as opposed to using it as a method to jhana.


So in Buddhadasa's approach one maintains awareness of the breath while doing vipassana - have I got that right?

P

one doesn't really do vipassana one gains it, i mean how do you do insight? so I'm not sure what you mean, if you're talking about methods like the Mahasi style watching the abdomen rise and fall, then it is similar except instead of the rising and falling your watching the in and the out of the breath.
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:59 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:
porpoise wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:yeah that's kinda how i understand it, this would be i guess what you call the vipassana aspect of anapanasati as opposed to using it as a method to jhana.


So in Buddhadasa's approach one maintains awareness of the breath while doing vipassana - have I got that right?

P

one doesn't really do vipassana one gains it, i mean how do you do insight? so I'm not sure what you mean, if you're talking about methods like the Mahasi style watching the abdomen rise and fall, then it is similar except instead of the rising and falling your watching the in and the out of the breath.


My approach to vipassana is basically observing the mind. How do you approach it?

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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby bodom » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:10 pm

porpoise wrote:So in Buddhadasa's approach one maintains awareness of the breath while doing vipassana - have I got that right


ANAPANASATI- MINDFULNESS WITH BREATHING -- BUDDHADASA BHIKKHU

And please do not forget! In every step, in every stage and in­terval of the practice, we must note the breathing in and breathing out. This is the background and foundation of our sati. This is how to be supremely mindful. Note the inhalations and exhalations at each stage ofpractice. Then we will meet with success in the first tetrad of Anapanasati.


http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/books ... athing.htm

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby bodom » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:38 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:Thanks Bodom. I may come back with more questions if thats OK but probably not for a while.


Of course its ok. Please feel free.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:49 am

In the first tetrad both the long breath and short breath are to be contemplated. Does this mean that the breath should be deliberately lengthened and shortened?

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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby bodom » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:52 am

porpoise wrote:In the first tetrad both the long breath and short breath are to be contemplated. Does this mean that the breath should be deliberately lengthened and shortened?

P


No, though Buddhadasa has suggested you can try experimenting intentionally breathing in long or short breaths so to understand and notice the difference between the two more easily. He also suggests when overcome by restlessness or anger to intentionally breathing long and deep to calm oneself.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:33 am

bodom wrote:
porpoise wrote:In the first tetrad both the long breath and short breath are to be contemplated. Does this mean that the breath should be deliberately lengthened and shortened?

P


No, though Buddhadasa has suggested you can try experimenting intentionally breathing in long or short breaths so to understand and notice the difference between the two more easily. He also suggests when overcome by restlessness or anger to intentionally breathing long and deep to calm oneself.

:anjali:


Thanks. Although it seems that long breathing calms the body and mind, and is therefore to be preferred?

P
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby bodom » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:14 am

porpoise wrote:
bodom wrote:
porpoise wrote:In the first tetrad both the long breath and short breath are to be contemplated. Does this mean that the breath should be deliberately lengthened and shortened?

P


No, though Buddhadasa has suggested you can try experimenting intentionally breathing in long or short breaths so to understand and notice the difference between the two more easily. He also suggests when overcome by restlessness or anger to intentionally breathing long and deep to calm oneself.

:anjali:


Thanks. Although it seems that long breathing calms the body and mind, and is therefore to be preferred?

P


If it works for you that is what is most important.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Bikkhu Buddhadasa's 16 stage anapanasati method

Postby Anicca » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:07 pm

porpoise wrote:Although it seems that long breathing calms the body and mind, and is therefore to be preferred?
bodom wrote:If it works for you that is what is most important.

Preferred is whatever calms the body and mind - don't control - just go with the flow!

As the breath disappears things may change in either direction - short, "barely there" breaths with little or no perceivable depth or long ones that seem an ultra-slow motion trickle of "in breath" that lasts forever followed by a forever trickle of "out breath".

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