mikenz66 wrote: Freawaru wrote:
octathlon wrote:That's my understanding of the goal, to catch that brief moment between the perception and the creation of the mental concept and the whole chain of events, and possibly delaying or interrupting that process..
Why should one want to delay or interrupt that process?
To prevent proliferation (papanca)?
I don't think so. The image of our body, that what is constructed using the body senses, is a sense object. The contact is with that mental sense object just as it is with a colour or a thought or a memory. Proliferation (papanca) is something else and has to do with identifying with the object.
"There is the case, monks, where an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — who has no regard for noble ones, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma; who has no regard for men of integrity, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma — perceives earth as earth. Perceiving earth as earth, he conceives [things] about earth, he conceives [things] in earth, he conceives [things] coming out of earth, he conceives earth as 'mine,' he delights in earth. Why is that? Because he has not comprehended it, I tell you.http://www.dhammavinaya.com/sutta/mn/1.html
And compare to:
"A monk who is a trainee — yearning for the unexcelled relief from bondage, his aspirations as yet unfulfilled — directly knows earth as earth. Directly knowing earth as earth, let him not conceive things about earth, let him not conceive things in earth, let him not conceive things coming out of earth, let him not conceive earth as 'mine,' let him not delight in earth. Why is that? So that he may comprehend it, I tell you.
So the point is not to prevent earth to arise (earth is a part of the body image, namely the hardness) but not to identify with it. To directly know hardness as hardness and not identify with it as my hardness, my hardness of the bones or the ground I have my feet on. When we walk we have perception of hardness at the soles of our feet but when one notes that this is hardness, sees it arising and staying and going away again one is going into the direction of "directly knowing earth as earth and not conceiving things about earth" and so on. But the process of earth arising in our mind has not changed.
Or to slow down or put a stop to the DO sequence (contact, feeling, craving, clinging...) by not doing the craving part...
I think staying perpetually aware, noting it all, is enough for that. It is the noting itself that will stop DO.
Furthremore, it's obviously very useful in "real life" to be able to delay reactions that one might later regret...
Why delay reactions? Isn't is more useful to be aware on the time scale we discuss and thus have a LOT of time to ponder the most useful reaction to any given situation? I mean for most situations discernment on a slow motion rate is already enough for that and when one is aware of how the body image is constructed one's discernment is much faster than that.