Anatta question, letting go

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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samadhi_steve
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Anatta question, letting go

Postby samadhi_steve » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:49 am

This question might be a little deep but i came across it in my meditation so i guess i will discuss it.

Is the practice of letting go of the 'one who knows' even realising the knowing as anatta?

I have read that many meditators even get stuck up on taking this knowing/awareness as an 'atta'. I believe Ajahn Boowa experienced this. While falling back into this knowing there is subject and object hence duality. I am speculating if you let go completely even of the knowing there will be nothing just a flux of sound, thought, smell, taste, tactile sensations, sight. Direct experience

Any sutta's support this or teachings I am unaware of?
Buddho is something cool and calm. It's the path for giving rise to peace and contentment — the only path that will release us from the suffering and stress in this world.

Kenshou
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Re: Anatta question, letting go

Postby Kenshou » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:13 am

Welp, can you think of anything that shouldn't be let go of an dis-identified with?

I think that "one who knows" is a little bit of a tricky turn of phrase to use, since it might give a person the impression that there is some "thing" sitting there doing the knowing of everything else, (as you have pointed out) when in reality, the "knowing", the simple consciousness of a thing, comes and goes with each object. The problem is not "knowing" itself but how we regard it. And the proper way to regard it should be as an impersonal impermanent fluctuating process. Just like everything else.

I dunno, what do you think?

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samadhi_steve
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Re: Anatta question, letting go

Postby samadhi_steve » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:15 am

thank you, cleared up directly
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Re: Anatta question, letting go

Postby 5heaps » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:12 am

samadhi_steve wrote:Is the practice of letting go of the 'one who knows' even realising the knowing as anatta?

if you were to say "no" id be in complete agreement with you.

atta is not an obscuration of the intellect but an obscuration of cognition itself. the problem is not the way the knowing is regarded but an error in the very fabric of the knowing.
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Re: Anatta question, letting go

Postby elcfa » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:44 am

samadhi_steve wrote:Is the practice of letting go of the 'one who knows' even realising the knowing as anatta?

I have read that many meditators even get stuck up on taking this knowing/awareness as an 'atta'.
Any sutta's support this or teachings I am unaware of?


You may find the following article about the seventh and eighth consciousness in the Yogacara school of Buddhism interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Consciousnesses

I understand that they interpret their seventh consciousness as the 'one who knows', but I am no expert in Yogacara teaching.

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Re: Anatta question, letting go

Postby bodom » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:40 pm

I just read this passage from Bodhi and thought it might be helpful to you..

As contemplation deepens, the contents of the mind become increasingly rarefied. Irrelevant flights of thought, imagination, and emotion subside, mindfulness becomes clearer, the mind remains intently aware, watching its own process of becoming. At times there might appear to be a persisting observer behind the process, but with continued practice even this apparent observer disappears. The mind itself — the seemingly solid, stable mind — dissolves into a stream of cittas flashing in and out of being moment by moment, coming from nowhere and going nowhere, yet continuing in sequence without pause.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... d.html#ch6

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Anatta question, letting go

Postby Freawaru » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:25 am

samadhi_steve wrote:This question might be a little deep but i came across it in my meditation so i guess i will discuss it.

Is the practice of letting go of the 'one who knows' even realising the knowing as anatta?

I have read that many meditators even get stuck up on taking this knowing/awareness as an 'atta'. I believe Ajahn Boowa experienced this.


According to this definition:

Ajahn Chah distinguished sense objects, the mind and "the one who knows": "The mind is that which acknowledges sense objects; sense objects are sense objects as distinct from the mind; 'the one who knows' knows both the mind and the sense objects for what they are." "The one who knows" refers to a deeper experiential insight which cannot be rendered with discursive knowledge and words, but at the same time relativizes and clarifies the characteristics of discursive, or referring to Ajahn Chah, worldly knowledge.
http://www.upaya.org/newsletter/view/2009/04/13


"the one who knows" is a level of vipassana. Of course, one can get stuck there for a time. It is a high level of vipassana - not final enlightment.


While falling back into this knowing there is subject and object hence duality.


Yes. There is duality. According to the definition by Ajahn Chah I would say that this vipassana level is experienced as "I am this vipassana level/the one who knows" and the rest as "this is not what I am". It is useful though because "the rest" that is seen and known as anatta includes form, feeling etc.

I am speculating if you let go completely even of the knowing there will be nothing just a flux of sound, thought, smell, taste, tactile sensations, sight. Direct experience


I doubt that the Beyond the "One who knows" can be imagined. Also, letting go does not mean that whatever you let go of is not there any more. The Buddha could walk and talk and think and feel - and know.


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