The Paṭisambhidāmagga is the canonical source for the so-called "insight-gnoses" (vipassanāñāṇa-s). The noble path arises through contemplating the signlessness of the aggregates, not from the utter absence of mental processes. If there is no mind and mental factors present then there is no path or fruition.rowyourboat wrote:Complete cessation, in a framework of successive insight knowledges arising, and the cessation moment being its culmination, is what I meant.
AN 9.36: "As far as the perception-attainments (saññāsamāpatti) go, that is as far as gnosis-penetration (aññāpaṭivedha) goes." Again, if there is no mind and mental factors present then there is no path or fruition.rowyourboat wrote:This is why the Buddha is saying in the above quote that non-perception in itself does not mean anything. However if you put it into the framework of the vipassana nana, it is the ending of aggregates, the ending of suffering, seen here and now.
The Abhidhammapiṭaka is part of the Pāḷi canon. Lokuttarajjhāna occurs in this Piṭaka in the context of attaining the noble path of stream-entry and the other noble paths and fruitions. The Dhammasaṅgaṇī Cittuppādakaṇḍa Lokuttarakusala Suddhikapaṭipadā:rowyourboat wrote:Your notion of supramundane jhana doesnt exist in the pali cannon either- please provide me with a quote with those words.
- When at a certain time one develops supramundane jhāna, which leads out, which goes to decrease (of rebirth), to abandonment of wrong views, to the attainment of the first stage (i.e. sotāpattimagga), quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful phenomena, he enters and remains in the first jhāna, which includes directed thought and evaluation, as well as joy and pleasure born of seclusion, and with difficult practice and slow acquisition of gnosis, then at that time contact arises, feeling arises, apperception arises, volitional intention arises, directed thought arises, evaluation arises, joy arises, pleasure arises, singleness of mind arises, the faith faculty arises, the endeavor faculty arises, the mindfulness faculty arises, the concentration faculty arises, the discernment faculty arises....
- Here a monk, at a certain time develops supramundane jhāna, which leads out, which goes to decrease (of rebirth), to abandonment of wrong views, to the attainment of the first stage (i.e. sotāpattimagga), quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful phenomena, he enters and remains in the first jhāna, which includes directed thought and evaluation, as well as joy and pleasure born of seclusion, and with difficult practice and slow acquisition of gnosis, and that which at that time is mindfulness, recollection, right mindfulness, the mindfulness factor of awakening, the path factor, and what belongs to the path -- this is said to be the application of mindfulness. (Also) the remaining phenomena associated with the application of mindfulness.
No it doesn't. Moreover, the Paṭisambhidāmagga is part of the Suttapiṭaka, and as already mentioned, it is the canonical source for the insight-gnoses. The Paṭisambhidāmagga includes in the stages of insight-gnosis the stage of contemplating the signlessness of the mind and mental factors. This is the supramundane jhāna of stream-entry:rowyourboat wrote:Well the sutta pitaka seems to differ with patisambidhamagga in that respect then.The Paṭisambhidāmagga is clear that entrance into the supramundane path occurs after correctly engaging contemplation of release (paṭinissaggānupassanā), not after contemplation of cessation (nirodhānupassanā).
- Gnosis of contemplation of the signlessness (animittānupassanāñāṇa) of feeling... recognition... fabrications... consciousness... etc., is signless deliverance because it liberates from all signs.
- What is the ultimate meaning of emptiness [as it relates to] all kinds of emptiness, which is the terminating of occurrence in one who is fully aware?... Through the contemplation of signlessness one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of signs.
- And what is the noble truth of the cessation of stress? The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving.
And where, when being abandoned, is this craving abandoned? And where, when ceasing, does it cease? Whatever is endearing & alluring in terms of the world: that is where, when being abandoned, this craving is abandoned. That is where, when ceasing, it ceases.
And what is endearing & alluring in terms of the world? The eye is endearing & alluring in terms of the world. That is where, when being abandoned, this craving is abandoned. That is where, when ceasing, it ceases.
The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect...
Forms... Sounds... Smells... Tastes... Tactile sensations... Ideas...
Eye-consciousness... Ear-consciousness... Nose-consciousness... Tongue-consciousness... Body-consciousness... Intellect-consciousness...
Eye-contact... Ear-contact... Nose-contact... Tongue-contact... Body-contact... Intellect-contact...
Feeling born of eye-contact... Feeling born of ear-contact... Feeling born of nose-contact... Feeling born of tongue-contact... Feeling born of body-contact... Feeling born of intellect-contact...
Perception of forms... Perception of sounds... Perception of smells... Perception of tastes... Perception of tactile sensations... Perception of ideas...
Intention for forms... Intention for sounds... Intention for smells... Intention for tastes... Intention for tactile sensations... Intention for ideas...
Craving for forms... Craving for sounds... Craving for smells... Craving for tastes... Craving for tactile sensations... Craving for ideas...
Thought directed at forms... Thought directed at sounds... Thought directed at smells... Thought directed at tastes... Thought directed at tactile sensations... Thought directed at ideas...
Evaluation of forms... Evaluation of sounds... Evaluation of smells... Evaluation of tastes... Evaluation of tactile sensations... Evaluation of ideas is endearing & alluring in terms of the world. That is where, when being abandoned, this craving is abandoned. That is where, when ceasing, it ceases.
This is called the noble truth of the cessation of stress.
Geoff