The way to Nirvana

[Freawaru]

Hi Matheesha,

It certainly is very interesting- even more fascinating is the lates quantum theory research which seems to show that the universe seems to exist as energy/wave forms (ie not anything that can de detected by the 6 senses) unless there is an act of observation -

There are several possibilities considered in Physics today (and likely, more to come) but in the end one can be killed by radioactivity and never sensed it. The human senses are very limited, many animals have better and even more senses such as sensing electric or magnetic fields or being able to see more colours or polarised light.

this clearly suggests that the universe disintegrates into nothingness when no one is watching!

One could prove the existence of God in this way - and thus His non-existence (see link below).

Hence we should not, according to quantum theory and kalaka sutta imagine that anything exists, in what is not sensed!

I think they refer to two different topics.

Apparently there was an interesting conversation between Einstein and Neils Bohr where the former asks the latter 'is it true that the moon doesn't exist when no one is observing it?' and the latter replies, 'can you prove that it does?'.

Well, you know how it is with Philosophical proves. Sometimes they are a dead end to themselves - just think of the prove of the non-existance of God.

http://www.whysanity.net/monos/hikers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rowyourboat]

Hi Freewaru

Well the Einstein-Bohr discussion apparently actualy took place. It was a discussion on physics, not philosophy. The known universe seems to disintegrate into waveforms when It is not being observed. Another interesting question is (apparently) why the universe can be explored through mathematics - why it is amenable to that (no automatic reason why it should). It seems some form of intelligence is at play, most likely the creators of mathematics - us! The truth is stranger than fiction .. or religion!

With metta

Matheesha

[kirk5a]

The known universe seems to disintegrate into waveforms when It is not being observed.

So since no one has observed that, how is it known? And if it is known then it seems we know something about things independent of our observation of them - namely "they disintegrate into waveforms" ... but it is math that supposedly tells us that, not observation, yet math is something observers do... hmmm. I guess we're assuming math doesn't disintegrate into waveforms when nobody is doing it, yet without math we wouldn't have the idea that things disintegrate into waveforms in the first place.

So where does that leave us. I personally do not observe my own red and white blood cells, is that supposed to tell us something about whether they exist?

[daverupa]

I personally do not observe my own red and white blood cells, is that supposed to tell us something about whether they exist?

No, just whether or not it's pertinent to Dhamma practice.

[Freawaru]

Hi Matheesha,

Hi Freewaru

Well the Einstein-Bohr discussion apparently actualy took place. It was a discussion on physics, not philosophy. The known universe seems to disintegrate into waveforms when It is not being observed. Another interesting question is (apparently) why the universe can be explored through mathematics - why it is amenable to that (no automatic reason why it should). It seems some form of intelligence is at play, most likely the creators of mathematics - us! The truth is stranger than fiction .. or religion!

With metta

Matheesha

this is certainly a fascinating topic and one can learn much by pondering and discussing these kind of things. However, I also think that this is one of those topics the Buddha knew but didn't use in his teachings because it is not leading to enlightenment. Of course, maybe tomorrow something might happen that changes this opinion of mine. But, so far I don't see much similarity between physics and Dhamma (there is much more similarity between horse-back riding and Dhamma). You know, if the Buddha had taught physics 2500 years ago instead of his Dhamma we would have spaceships with warp-drive by now.

[rowyourboat]

..or have more minds like spaceships with warpdrive

[lilacbloom]

Hello!

I just read this thread and it reminded me of our philosophy class back in school wherein we were asked to dissect the novel Siddharta and how he was sick of life. I realized that I too have reached that point wherein I feel I am in autopilot mode, following through the course of life simply because I cannot imagine myself doing anything else. It makes me wonder if I am not "living" per se but just coursing through the journey of life. Did anyone feel the same way at any point in their life? My husband has just recently started meditating classes, and although I do not seem to notice any improvements yet, I keep questioning on whether I too should go on that journey and begin meditation. I'm afraid though that I might not be able to concentrate at all. Does anyone have a say in this? It will really help me very much. Thanks!

-lilac

[icyteru]

Hello!

I just read this thread and it reminded me of our philosophy class back in school wherein we were asked to dissect the novel Siddharta and how he was sick of life. I realized that I too have reached that point wherein I feel I am in autopilot mode, following through the course of life simply because I cannot imagine myself doing anything else. It makes me wonder if I am not "living" per se but just coursing through the journey of life. Did anyone feel the same way at any point in their life? My husband has just recently started meditating classes, and although I do not seem to notice any improvements yet, I keep questioning on whether I too should go on that journey and begin meditation. I'm afraid though that I might not be able to concentrate at all. Does anyone have a say in this? It will really help me very much. Thanks!

-lilac

don't afraid about something that you're not even start.
start it first, and keep practicing.
like a kid practice riding bycicle. if that kid afraid of falling, he / she can't riding bycicle.