the great vegetarian debate

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation
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DAWN
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Re: Meat eating

Postby DAWN » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:54 pm

Verse 129: All are afraid of the stick, all fear death. Putting oneself in another's place, one should not beat or kill others.
Verse 130: All are afraid of the stick, all hold their lives dear. Putting oneself in another's place, one should not beat or kill others.

Verse 131: He who seeks his own happiness by oppressing others, who also desire to have happiness, will not find happiness in his next existence.
Verse 132: He who seeks his own happiness by not oppressing others, who also desire to have happiness, will find happiness in his next existence.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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daverupa
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Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby daverupa » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:39 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20354669

Meat-eaters "easily cheat, lie, forget promises and commit sex crimes", according to a controversial school textbook available in India.

...

"The strongest argument that meat is not essential food is the fact that the Creator of this Universe did not include meat in the original diet for Adam and Eve. He gave them fruits, nuts and vegetables," reads a chapter entitled Do We Need Flesh Food?


:jawdrop:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby cooran » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:03 am

Hello dave,

Well .... it's true. BUT Vegetarians and Vegans also "easily cheat, lie, forget promises and commit sex crimes". :jumping:

One wonders why a textbook for Indian Schools is quoting as proof a jewish/christian story about Adam and Eve. :thinking: I didn't think that couple were part of the Hindu culture?

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby Ben » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:28 am

cooran wrote:Hello dave,

Well .... it's true. BUT Vegetarians and Vegans also "easily cheat, lie, forget promises and commit sex crimes". :jumping:

One wonders why a textbook for Indian Schools is quoting as proof a jewish/christian story about Adam and Eve. :thinking: I didn't think that couple were part of the Hindu culture?

with metta
Chris


Its not surprising.
The propensity to warp scientific and historical facts to one's political, religious or other deeply-held view is something that is not unique to the militant-lunatics from the vegie-fringe on the sub-continent.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:18 am

Reminds me of this gem I found a while ago on a Muslim site:

‎"The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. It feels no jealousy. And among people who consume pork, the practice of wife swapping and other forms of promiscuous behavior is common."
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby cooran » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:20 am

Hello LonesomeYogurt,

Was that in a school textbook like the OP?

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:43 am

Untitled.jpg
Untitled.jpg (26.85 KiB) Viewed 798 times
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:05 am

Image
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:09 am

tiltbillings wrote:Image

is he trying to heave up what he has just seen? haha
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:15 am

Cittasanto wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Image

is he trying to heave up what he has just seen? haha
Either that or it is his reaction to viewing his version of the Wicker Man. It just seemed to be an appropriate response to the silly claim in the OP.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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DAWN
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby DAWN » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:30 am

Actualy there is some logic, because peoples are primates, and primates leaves on the tree, and on the tree there is fruits. And if we could be primates, we was not be able to manipulate objects well, so could not become humans.
So logicaly we are humans because we love fruits on the tree :juggling:

tiltbillings wrote:Image

:lol:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:34 am

DAWN wrote:Actualy there is some logic, because peoples are primates, and primates leaves on the tree, and on the tree there is fruits. And if we could be primates, we was not be able to manipulate objects well, so could not become humans.
So logicaly we are humans because we love fruits on the tree :juggling:
So, then, are fruit bats.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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DAWN
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby DAWN » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:54 am

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:Actualy there is some logic, because peoples are primates, and primates leaves on the tree, and on the tree there is fruits. And if we could be primates, we was not be able to manipulate objects well, so could not become humans.
So logicaly we are humans because we love fruits on the tree :juggling:
So, then, are fruit bats.


Fruit bats it's a Batman ancestry :smile: I have some doubts about his human nature :?
It's a joke, of corse. ;)
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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Kusala
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby Kusala » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:22 am

daverupa wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20354669

Meat-eaters "easily cheat, lie, forget promises and commit sex crimes", according to a controversial school textbook available in India.

...

"The strongest argument that meat is not essential food is the fact that the Creator of this Universe did not include meat in the original diet for Adam and Eve. He gave them fruits, nuts and vegetables," reads a chapter entitled Do We Need Flesh Food?


:jawdrop:


The Buddha was a meat eater... :thinking:
Image

Homage to the Buddha
Thus indeed, is that Blessed One: He is the Holy One, fully enlightened, endowed with clear vision and virtuous conduct, sublime, the Knower of the worlds, the incomparable leader of men to be tamed, the teacher of gods and men, enlightened and blessed.

Homage to the Teachings
The Dhamma of the Blessed One is perfectly expounded; to be seen here and now; not delayed in
time; inviting one to come and see; onward leading (to Nibbana); to be known by the wise, each for himself.

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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Postby DAWN » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:02 am

Kusala wrote:
daverupa wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20354669

Meat-eaters "easily cheat, lie, forget promises and commit sex crimes", according to a controversial school textbook available in India.

...

"The strongest argument that meat is not essential food is the fact that the Creator of this Universe did not include meat in the original diet for Adam and Eve. He gave them fruits, nuts and vegetables," reads a chapter entitled Do We Need Flesh Food?


:jawdrop:


The Buddha was a meat eater... :thinking:


Buddha was dana accepter, and merit creater for lay followers. :thinking:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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I'am sorry for my english

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DAWN
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Re: Meat eating

Postby DAWN » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:20 am

To complete.
DN2
"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to consuming stored-up goods such as these — stored-up food, stored-up drinks, stored-up clothing, stored-up vehicles, stored-up bedding, stored-up scents, and stored-up meat — he abstains from consuming stored-up goods such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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Ben
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Re: Meat eating

Postby Ben » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:27 am

DAWN wrote:To complete.
DN2
"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to consuming stored-up goods such as these — stored-up food, stored-up drinks, stored-up clothing, stored-up vehicles, stored-up bedding, stored-up scents, and stored-up meat — he abstains from consuming stored-up goods such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."


And by your logic we shouldn't be eating food or drinks.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
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e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

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DAWN
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Re: Meat eating

Postby DAWN » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:53 am

Ben wrote:
DAWN wrote:To complete.
DN2
"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to consuming stored-up goods such as these — stored-up food, stored-up drinks, stored-up clothing, stored-up vehicles, stored-up bedding, stored-up scents, and stored-up meat — he abstains from consuming stored-up goods such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."


And by your logic we shouldn't be eating food or drinks.


I my logic - yes, thats why i will ordain, and by doing so i will eat and drink only what is given. If there is nobody who will give to my body conditions to existance, so my body will die. You will ask me thus: but now, do you eat only what is given? And i will say: Yes, because my mother know my moral principes, so she gives me a food, also i have some money from my employer, only for food, so i use it too.

Perharps this quotation is not apropriate, because speak only about "some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith", but bhikkhu is the exemple to follow, isn't it?

By this cotation i would like to say, that animal lives are stolen, and it's not good to accept or buy what is stolen.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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Re: Meat eating

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:01 pm

Dawn
All that list is excess from donations and it means that the mendicants help themselves when they want something instead of using it as-and-when necessary.
it is still given in faith.
Last edited by Cittasanto on Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Ben
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Re: Meat eating

Postby Ben » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:05 pm

Keep in mind Dawn that the Buddha was not a vegetarian. He also rejected vegetarianism as a practice for the sangha.
No where, in the Tipitaka did the Buddha advocate for vegetarianism for the sangha nor the laity.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
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